The Commander Series Forum

I decided to make a new thread for this.

Unless this guy is doing something wrong, the flank move he does at 14:00 with his Initiative move is extremely gamey. Is that allowed and how do you stop it?

http://youtu.be/mpLM6WpYWUc

I can't see anything wrong with it truth be told, though I haven't watched the full video. If that Sherman has managed to get all the way across the board in the open, head on, in front of a Hetzer without ending up either dead or suppressed then I think he's probably free to make that initiative move to outflank his opponent. I think the likelihood of ever realistically pulling that off is minimal.

I don't know what other people think but that's my feeling of it.

By-Tor is right, from a quick skim of the video. That lurking Hetzer is in trouble if the Sherman's got that close unmolested! The same tactic is very handy for infantry close assaults - get to initiative range, then scuttle round the flank without drawing op fire, then in out of arc for "here they come" fire and winkle the defenders out their holes

It doesn't matter whether you got into that position because of terrain or numbers, that's a BS move that is the definition of gamey.

No one I know will ever play this game again if you allow that.

Whatever the Initiative phase is trying to accomplish, it certainly recognizes there needs to be opportunity fire against Assaulting Units.

I think the Sherman got into that position because the Hetzer chose to do nothing to stop it! It never used op fire in response to the Sherman's ordered movement, it never used ordered fire in its command phases and it never used and movement to avoid the flank fire? I wouldn't call it "gamey" - but I'd definitely sack the Hetzer commander!

We play no op fire vs initiative actions and it's never been a problem.

What Dr Dave said. The game sequence works happily there - I'd like to say it's good tactical manoeuvre on the American part, pinning or drawing the Hetzers fire with the infantry or arty whilst the tank works to the flank to pot it and break the German defence line, but I don't think the German did *anything* to stop it. Although it is an example game, and therefore not indicative of "real play", I guess.

The Hetzer has a 25cm Initiative range, and could likely (and should have) suppressed it on a free from enemy Op Fire first action previous turn, then either finish it with ordered actions or start popping shots to suppress the supporting infantry. Given German CVs and the decent dice on the Hetzer it could probably keep the whole bally lot stopped for a couple of turns on its own

I think the video shows less an issue with Initiative and more a very poor set of decision on the German COs part Presumably due to it being a "training game", or possibly "IRL" him being a shell shocked 16y/o with two weeks training faced with an insurmountable opposition

Edit: I'd also recommend playing through a few games where similar situations are likely to come up and trying out all the options available to both sides; I suspect you'll find it's not the issue you think it is...