The Commander Series Forum

Forum Home Forum Home
ImageCurrent Forum Category Blitzkrieg Commander, 1936-45
ImageImageCurrent Forum BKC-II Rule Queries
ImageImageImageCurrent Topic Opportunity Fire Queries
Post Reply
Post Reply
Author Page 1 
AJ at the bank
United Kingdom
Joined 23/09/07
Last Visit 14/06/24
335 Posts
Posted on 30 June 2014 at 21:38:49 GMT
More queries from our game last Friday...

Opportunity Fire clarification. P21 of the rules.

Are there effectively two types of Opp firing rules? One reacting to enemy movement and one reacting to enemy firing?

(1) Opp fire against an enemy unit that moves:
- Fire at any part of the enemy unit's move

Q : Rules state "When firing multiple units at a single target, roll all attacks together".
What happens in an example when the enemy unit moves into sight of 2 units that want to Opp fire...they comply with this rule, fire together and score hits but no suppression....so the enemy unit moves on ....and comes into sight of another unit that also wants to Opp fire ...
Can that third unit do so ....even though that means multiple units firing...but not rolling all attacks together?
Does it in practise mean that all those units with LOS to Opp Fire should do so all at the same 'selected' point in the enemy's move if possible but not exclusively?

(2) Opp fire at an enemy unit that fires :
"Units that use opportunity fire against an enemy unit that fires, will fire immediately after the enemy unit has fired".

Q : What happens in an example when two rows of 4 tanks are lined up vs each other....
The active player (A) declares 3 tank units are firing at 1 enemy unit, and the 1 remaining is firing against another unit in the opposing line. The inactive player (B) is planning to Opp fire everything back.
What happens when player A fires the 3 tanks at 1 unit....and scores a couple of hits...but no suppression.
(Option 1) Should all 4 of player B's tanks immediately Opp fire at those that have just fired ...seemingly complying with the rules about immediately firing back...and rolling all attacks together when firing at a single unit...or...

(Option 2) Does player B have to wait until A finishes ALL his firing ...and then only gets to return Opp fire with any units still unsuppressed/live?
Back in Feb 2010 ...Pete answered a similar question
(here http://www.blitzkrieg-commander.com/Content/Forum/Topic.aspx?CategoryID=2&ForumID=58&TopicID=10824&ForumPage=1) ...
indicating this option is right - but this does not seem to comply with rules on immediately firing back.


Any thoughts please?
Cross698
United Kingdom
Joined 28/05/11
Last Visit 07/05/22
179 Posts
Posted on 30 June 2014 at 22:41:04 GMT
Any unit can use opportunity fire if it moves or fires (not deploy) also mortars can only OPP fire if a unit fires, but any unit that does so then takes -1 in the command phase and any unit that used its initiative cannot OPP Fire. All LOF and LOS apply.

1)A unit can only fire once, so yes. If they have LOF and LOS then roll together at the point you want to fire, if suppressed they stop, if not the enemy continue up to their full move. If they then come into range of another unit by moving into LOF and LOS then that new unit can also OPP Fire.

2)Correct.

3)OPP Fire is done in the opponent's command phase, so I treat it as simultaneous, so i'm firing all my tanks at whatever target or moving - you then OPP Fire if they fire or move your choice, but it is in response to their action. So you decide after they fire or at any point that they move. You could target 1 or more units. In the Command Phase when you roll the CV dice you indicate what units are ordered and the order in which the units go.

That's how I read it, but I don't have the rules to hand! Page 22 I think and look up the Erratta.
ianrs54
England
Joined 08/11/08
Last Visit 19/01/23
1348 Posts
Posted on 01 July 2014 at 08:33:17 GMT
Opp fire comes after a fire order, but during a move order....

IanS
AJ at the bank
United Kingdom
Joined 23/09/07
Last Visit 14/06/24
335 Posts
Posted on 01 July 2014 at 19:04:12 GMT
Sure thing Ian....

But when after the fire order?

(1) Immediately after the unit fires....before other ordered units fire.....
or
(2) not until all all ordered units have finished firing...and you return Opp fire with whatever is left standing?
Kiwidave
New Zealand
Joined 04/06/04
Last Visit 31/05/19
841 Posts
Posted on 01 July 2014 at 19:45:01 GMT
I'd go with after all units have fired - keeps it simple.
sediment
United Kingdom
Joined 05/09/09
Last Visit 17/10/21
567 Posts
Posted on 01 July 2014 at 20:20:39 GMT
Definitely (2) assuming you mean after the current group under orders as fired once.

More interesting in CWC when stabilised armour moves and fires or fires and moves - in the case of the former, op fire comes at any time during movement but before firing. If a fire then move, op fire can come either after everything has fired or anytime during the move.

Cheers

Andy
AJ at the bank
United Kingdom
Joined 23/09/07
Last Visit 14/06/24
335 Posts
Posted on 01 July 2014 at 21:10:05 GMT
Thanks Sediment...

Right ...in that case ... The errata for this rule should read...

"Units that use opportunity fire in response to enemy firing, will do so immediately after all enemy units ordered to fire have done so."
pbeccas
Australia
Joined 23/01/10
Last Visit 14/05/21
84 Posts
Posted on 06 July 2014 at 02:59:16 GMT
Thats the way we play it.
toxicpixie
United Kingdom
Joined 09/03/11
Last Visit 17/07/21
2177 Posts
Posted on 06 July 2014 at 10:02:07 GMT
That's what Pete said recently in another thread re:Op Fire Smile
Page 1