The Commander Series Forum

Can anyone confirm that I am doing these correctly -

1) Deploy field defenses before plotting scheduled fire - so they can be targetted as scheduled targets?
2) No "hidden" deployment - place command units alternately, then place all units, even if they are concealed?
3) This is the confusing bit - recce rule page 10. Do you measure distance to the nearest enemy unit or the nearest visible unit? ie can recce "spot" concealed units at up to 60cm? (page 6 seems to say yes)

Downside of this seems to be that a recce unit with a FAO nearby can make a beeline for my cunningly concealed ambushers and blitz them! Does anyone have house rules around this?

Well, the recce needs the successful rolls to reveal, and the. The FAO needs successful calls for fire, and then if your units are hidden they're probably in cover so harder to hit even when revealed, but basically - yes.

But that's why recce is useful Also, that ties up the recce so it can't grant +1 to someone's CV, and it has to be closest to the FAO meaning either dire recce rolls or a FAO at danger-close, begging to be overrun.

Of course you can also buy an Ambush to use reserves really aggressively or even just use reserves and try to drop them somewhere awkward post game start.

BKC etc is one of the few systems I've seen where recce units are actually useful for anything other than being an extra combat unit or for the infamous recce by death tactic...

In order of your questions..

(1) P41 of the Rules confirms this is the correct order of events

(2) a. There is no hidden deployment in a BKC non-umpired game. Therefore you cannot have 'surprise' ambushes really. However -
(i) You could try this if you had an umpire and allow units to be hidden until visible though.
(ii) Use of 'dummy units' does not exist in BKCII rules...but house rules exist where you can have a % of units as 'dummies' dependant on the scenario. This helps to keep the opponent guessing / Fog of war...in a non-umpired game. Still doesn't give you a surprise ambush though.

b. Deployment will differ by scenario...but yes, all non-mobile/flanking units are put on the table even if concealed.

(3) When using Reece...measure the distance to the nearest non-command enemy unit (max range is 60cm) and try a successful roll...P10 Reece rules explains the process.

Item 7 of the FAQ download confirms no line of sight is required between the enemy unit and the Reece unit when attempting Reece. Reece can spot any type (including concealed units) of on-table units, except for command units, which do not count in ascertaining the closet unit to the Reece.

One way to stop Reece from revealing concealed troops....make sure there are other units closer to the enemy Reece units - to get in the way of the Reece attempt.

Hope this helps
AJ.

Thanks again for your comments. Totally agree with toxicpixie that it is good to see recce working a bit differently, as opposed to the "drive up that road until you get shot" of most rules. I have asked a couple of questions on here now, and truth be told, in each case the answer has been in the rule book. Until now! because I have no clue as to where to find any "buy an ambush" rule! toxicpixie - can you help with this one?

cheers

Ah, that's mainly in the scenarios section IIRC - 50pts, and not always available depending on which scenario you're playing. Not at my books but if you have a look you should find them

If you look in the CWC book! I don't think ambushes are available in BKC. Which makes some sense, as they are more a feature of asymmetric warfare (Vietnam etc).

Are ambushes not in BKCII? Good grief, we've just used them anyway I'll have to check that

WWII ....no ambush rules.

Still......taking it from CWC....might be the way to get the house rule you were after Orosay.

Ambushes are in CWC and FWC, but something for BKC3, along with the revised RECCE!

Andy

It's funny, one of the things I like best about BKC is its simplicity (maybe should say clever mechanisms!), which in turn makes it less susceptible to arguments/rules lawyer debate. Taking on board toxicpixies first comments on my "concerns", I think I would rather avoid house rules wherever possible as long as there is a logic or risk/reward to everything, and I think that generally there is. Our group plays 3-4 players per side, so the fewer small print rules/additions the better! I used to enjoy "Rapid Fire" in its early days, but feel that it has tried to incorporate too much detail in order to try and satisfy everyone, I would hate to see that happen to BKC

Yeah, I prefer to play RAW as much as possible, but there tends to be two time periods where fiddling is at a peak - immediately on starting playing a set of rules (that's not right! XYZ should be allowed/disallowed! I don't see why it does this...), or after a long period of play when you know why it does XYZ and have deliberated and decide it needs a minor tweak or two or three or four...

In general I find it's bets to be hands off either way

Just back from the club - BKC game and went with the rules as discussed - all units placed on table from the start, and guess what - didn't make much difference! Recce trying to sneak up to concentractions of troops got shot (doh!). Players trying to call artillery on concealed units? - well you just cant!
Down side was that again we played "hasty assault" and again attacking germans couldn't get beyond the 4 minefields and trench/gun pits. ) I think we need to go back to the BKC1 and give attacker double points? Or maybe we just aren't very good generals (yet). Just one thought - we play the table length ways - ie a 4 foot frontage on a 6x4 table - maybe thats not right!

Attacking is hard - minefields and wire channel you badly, and dug in troops are hard to shift. Engineers help with the mines, smoke the defenders first opportunity you get (pre-planned fire helps!), concentrate your force and crack a small hole to then pour through. If they leave their defensive line to stop you, you can then job them in the open. If they don't then you roll them up from behind. Mercilessly clobber any gun or support weapon that reveals itself by firing. Suppression is good, but a dead weapon means one less set of fire back, and most decent guns have few enough hits you can stack up enough to kill them with a bit of effort!

Engineers & flame tanks (or heavy 'break through tanks' with enough raw dice) help for picking on the isolated section of line. Aircraft too. That's the key - isolate, break in, rampage.

On a four foot width with full points that's going to be hard as it'll be really easy to form a solid first line AND cover it with defenses AND cover it with fire from support weapons or guns in a back line.

I reckon two to one odds are about right if the defender gets defences (and the attacker knows what they're doing...), 3:2 if they don't almost always sees the defender butchered so it's really finely balanced...

four feet is about the maximum frontage for a full strength battalion defense with two companies up and one behind and about the frontage for a regimental attack with two battalions leading.

information from

http://balagan.info/infantry-unit-frontage...

Indeedy - and for @a regiment/brigade on attack (depending on your country of choices nomenclature) but I'm betting there's a wee more than half a dozen infantry platoons up front with a couple of support weapons, and three more a bit back...

"Recce trying to sneak up to concentractions of troops got shot (doh!). "

I try to put my recce in a position where there is no chance of a non-recce enemy unit spotting it. That is, I put them behind woods or deep into them, behind hills, or behind BUAs. It may make it harder to get a successful recce roll because of increased distance but it makes them survive a lot longer.

Agreed - out-of-sight is best for recce in these rules. The recce doesn't need a LOS to do its job.

Is that right? I know that the recce unit doesn't need LOS to the COMMAND unit (page 10), but surely it must need LOS to the "target" unit? I had justified the 60cm spotting distance to myself by saying "they are recce - they must be good at spotting things" but I would never have let them spot over a hill or through a forest?

On the table width thing I took the sentance in the intro literally - "a playing area 120 x 180 cm"... it also fitted well with the flank march dividing the table into thirds for arrival. Certainly turning it to 180 x 120 will help the attacker !

You can think of it as the recce platoon sending out patrols of a couple of men, using their sound ranging gear, radio intercept gear and so on

Table size - I actually quite like a 'deep battle' approach but I suspect you have to approach it more historically, do something to commit the defender to a deeper defence in several lines and not a thick crust, and get the attacker to deploy in 'waves', eg pinning force, break through, exploitation forces.

Reece LOS...."Is that right?..."

Yes....see my previous post above.... Item 7 of the FAQs.

On playing area ...see p37 for table set-up ...duration of game....table baselines etc.

4 feet between opposing sides ...and 6 feet wide.

Sometimes you read something at a glance and it sticks in your mind as a fact - think that was me and table orientation!

AJ - thanks for the steer to the FAQ's - I hadn't even read these.