The Commander Series Forum

Hallo, after a lot of time I have played again BKC2
And I have a question. Why save value? when a target is
in cover (light or hard)the probably to hit it are 5-6 or 6 (the effect of cover).
In fact in BKC1 the save value was an option.
Pete says that in BKC1 was too easy to hit troops in cover but
in BKC2 is too hard.

Just my opinion and i never played BKC1 so dont know the differences but whilst i agree its hard to damage units in cover that have a save, i think its realistically difficult, and have found that close assault is the only sure fire way of dis-lodging enemy unis in this type of position, so maybe it was included to stop the over use of simply shelling the shit out of dug in opponents

The save value represents the armor of the target. Targets in cover are harder to hit due to less of the vehicle being exposed to fire, but the armor save still applies to any hits on the vehicle even if only part of it can be hit.

Yes Happymc, I have considered your opinion in fact Pete says
the same thing but in BKCII it's hard suppress troops in cover terrain such built-up area so it's not possible (or possible with heavy losses) a close assault.
I have tried an house rule with auto suppression for all
HE weapons when fire on infantry and soft-skin targets.

I'd suggest as we have discussed elsewhere on this forum that you consider rating your troops green-regular-veteran and playing suppression as 4+ for green, 5+ for regular and 6+ for elite in any terrain.

Makes for a far better game and stops people using urban areas to hide their infantry. You'll still have to roll a six to hit them at all of course.

Now that idea, I like.

Conversely, not rating your troops, keeping to hit numbers and save value, but needing a mere 4 to inflict suppresssion, not the same 6 you need to hit.
Suppression becomes much easier, preparing dug in tropps for a close assault. At the same time, actual hits are likely to remain few, so shelling from afar remains a waste of time.

"suppression as 4+ for green, 5+ for regular and 6+ for elite in any terrain"

This is an optional rule in CWC and that's how we always play it bor BKC. We think it leads to a much more relaistic game. Every one isn't the same. Rating the Australians in 1940 the same as a Lybian division isn't very realistic.

That might help alleviate the excellent nature of trenches... do you increase points for vets and decrease for green troops btw?

Never use points.

I think CWC optional rules say -10% for green, +10% for elite.

Yes, hits and saves stay the same. Then for each unsaved hit we roll a d6. Suppressed on a 4 for poor, 5 for average and 6 for elites.

Cheers Dr Dave!

Excuse me DrDave where is this optional rule in CWC?

p.55 with doctrine

Thank DrDave, it's a usefull information!!!