The Commander Series Forum

Hi. Again. This is listed twice, is this correct, or should it be MG Vickers Carrier?

Two different dates for these. The first to represent a carrier with Boys AT-rifle.

Thanks! How would this be based? Two chaps lying down and the carrier on the same base?

Couple of infantry and a carrier on one base sounds good to me!

I believe the Support Unit (MG, Bren, Carrier) represents the Carrier Platoon in the Infantry Battalion. One is with Boyes AT Rifle, and one is without.
The same unit on p.65 and p.68 includes PIAT, giving it AT of 4/10.

I represent my carrier platoons with 2 Universal Carrier models and infantry figs on infantry sized bases (mine are 25mmx25mm), while carriers used for transport are based singled on vehicle bases 30mmx30mm.

I'm using 40x20mm for tanks (portrait) and intend to use the same size landscape.for infantry. I'll base one carrier and some support infantry like the vickers crew on one, another carrier with an AT rifle crew, and then the Bren gunners etc.

Weren't Loyd and Bren carriers seldomly used for carrying men due to their limited space?

I use 1 carrier plus a couple of infantry on an infantry-sized base to represent the carrier platoon of a battalion. AFAIK these guys could be tasked as recce or support, so I will represent both these types with the same stand (have to choose at planning time which it is...)

Solo carrier on a vehicle base will represent transport for MG or mortar stand, or tow for a 6pdr.

Pete

Dafyddh - nice flag - The Carrier platoon (with 13 carriers) was a really potent part of the battalion with 40+ men and a much higher proprtion of supt weapons such as 2", PIAT and Bren.

Universal carriers made poor towing vehicles and apparently had a tendency to wobble when used to pull a 6pdr. Hence, the Loyd being used to pull the 6pdrs in the AT troops.

For the carrier platoon you should really use 3 or 4 stands/bases. Each section of 3 vehicles and 12 men have 3 Bens, 1 2" mortar (+3 with the vehicle om Universal MkII) and up to 3 Boys ATr or 1 PIAT. + anything not tied down, inculding ma Duce and 20mm cannon.

IanS

I agree that a single stand is not really sufficient to represent the Carrier Platoon 3 or 4 is too many IMHO. I prefer to use 2 the MG Bren Carrier and another carrying a recce infantry stand or a Wasp for later NWE. To represent the 2 Carrier Sections in a Recce Troop I use a single carrier. Not quite sure how to differentiate the Scout Platoon of a Motor Company though as that had only 3 sections of carriers.

I've given representation of a carrier platoon some thought. I like the idea of using sections, I think that should give 4 stands of carriers with troops. It's how to handle the game stats that I've not been able to get happy with. The firepower and AT capacity is way above a conventional platoon, so could be represented by allowing each stand (section) a suitable AP and AI factor. However, as each section would only represent 10-15 men, the CA would need to be reduced drastically compared with a regular platoon's CA as there just wouldn't be enough bayonets/entrenching tools/grenades/rifle buts being wielded if assaulting/assaulted by a full strength platoon. Using sections then gives the opportunity to add Wasp sections as well, which is in line with how they were employed AFAIK.

What does everyone else do for game stats?

Use them exactly as written and buy two per infantry battalion (points permitting!). Haven't used Wasps though - given experience with CV3/33 flamethrowers I suspect they will be a bad combo of really scary but easy to kill...

The stats as written give the bren carrier from 6/44 an AT of 4/10 (same as infantry upgrade AT for a foot platoon) and AP of 3/30 (same as regulars). CA is only 2, compared with 4 for regulars, so Pete has vectored in fewer bodies on the ground in the CA.

For me (I try to work within the bounds of historical orbats), the problem is that to allocate two such units to an infantry batallion would give the carriers too much flexibility with too much fire power. I'm no expert, but my reading suggests these troops were used to seize a piece of terrain, ahead of the main force, against light infantry opposition, and then hold until reinforced. The preponderance of brens and PIATS was too keep unwelcome visitors at arms length for as long as possible, but in the face of a determined attack they were expected to "get out of Dodge" ASAP. Having 2 units of this type in a batallion doubles what was historically used. Of course the motorized, rather than lorried batallions had one per company, so fielding 3 in a batallion is fine.

Not sure what the answer is to fielding them as sections. Would two stands at half AT/AP/CA stats work?

As for Wasps, with a CA of 12 I think they could be fierce close up, but not much use against anything other than infantry. Could be a good way of winkling them out of foxholes and trenches. I don't remember the reference, but I've recently read about a section of Wasps taking out a bunch of HMG positions somewhere on the borders of the Reich in early 45, making very short shrift, but the opposition didn't even have 'fausts, or failed to use them anyway.

Cheers

Andy