The Commander Series Forum

When a Battlegroup reaches it's Breakpoint and you then have to roll for your Command to see if you withdraw or continue for another turn depending on a pass or fail I am unsure of how the Tactical Doctrine is applied here (having searched the forum I know some players count ALL units remaining on the table and some do not) A German Battlegroup with Flexible Tactical Doctrine has -1 to their breakpoint per 1000 points. Am I right in thinking that this means per FULL 1000 points, ie. if the Battlegroup started with 3000pts. does it then use this figure to their command roll ie. -3 or should you total the points for the units you have remaining ie. you have 1999pts. remaining so it is -1 Thanks Ivan.

If your using battlegroups then it takes it off automatically when it works out your breakpoint if your doing it your self then its -1pt per full 1000pts at the start of the game, so in your example of the 3000pt army it would be -3. But if the army was 2999pts at the start of the game then it would be -2pts.

Ivan,

here's my understanding of Breakpoint.

You select your force - say 3000 points. You count all the units/stands up, leaving out Commands/FAO/FAC's, recce and off-table arty, planes and soft transport. That'll leave you with, say, 30 stands. If you've got normal doctrine your breakpoint is 15. If you're Flexible with the -1 per 1000, then your breakpoint is 12.

Once you've lost 12 stands you've reached your breakpoint. It doesn't matter what the value of the stands is - you're not counting points, you're counting units. So whether you lose 12 tanks at 150 points each or 12 infanty at only 50 points each, you're at your break point once you've lost any 12 units.

If you had to calculate points costs every time you lost some stands it'd be a real pain in the arse and would really slow the game down.

That's my understanding anyway - and also the understanding of around 15 other BKC players at our club.

cheers

John

Big Dave - don't forget that, for some reason, Battlegroups only seems to remove the FIRST -1 for the first 1000 points. If you're playing 3000, you have to remember to remove the other 2 yourself.

Ah, yes thanks, I can see that I had misunderstood how the - modifiers worked, so they don't come off the result of the command roll ie. CO cv9 rolls 8 and the -1 (or more)makes that a result of 7. I thought that was a bit severe! Thanks again, that makes much more sense. Ivan.

Ivan - glad it's been of help. Regarding the testing once you've gone over the breakpoint, it works like this:

Once you're PAST your breakpoint and have to start testing, then for every unit lost past your breakpoint, the CO's CV goes down by one for the test.

Let's take a CO with a CV of 9 and breakpoint of 12. If he's lost 13 stands, he'll have to take the test to keep his Battlegroup in the game on an 8. If he's lost 14 stands, it'll be on a 7, etc.

If he passes and you get another turn, he'll still be on CV9 in terms of commanding units in the commmand phase. The minus penalty is just for the Break Point test.

Hope this helps

John

Are your sure Johnnyboy I've never noticed but then I only have one flexible army and its very small, but skinnedpuppies armies are nearly all flexible and his breakpoint always seems a lot lower than mine.

Absolutely sure, Dave. I'm looking at one of my Late War German rosters right now. 3000 points exactly, 28 "proper" on-table units. It shows the Breakpoint as 13, but it should be 11.

Battlegroups always takes off -1 for the first 1000, but then doesn't do it for the next X thousands.

Obviously can't comment on skinnedpuppies armies, but perhaps he's using expensive stuff like SS or lots of Tigers?

Personally I stick to Heer and just throw in one Tiger ('cause it'd be rude not to!).

Yeah maybe.

Your right I just knocked up a quick German list on BG and it was wrong.