The Commander Series Forum

I'd be grateful for help with a couple of aspects of the Recce optional rule:

1)'Measure the distance fromt the recce unit to the nearest enemy unit'.
- Am I right to assume that the recce unit does not have to have line of sight to the nearest enemy unit?

2)'Issue orders to on-table mortars & IG to fire at the enemy unit during the command phase (CO or HQ)'.
- Must the on-table mortars & IG belong to the nearest command unit with whom the recce unit is communicating, or can it be any on-table mortars & IG that are in range?
- Must the CO/HQ issue a specific order just to the mortars (and consequently suffer the -1 modifier for each successive order to the same formation) or can the order to the mortars be part of a modified command roll for the all of the units in the CO/HQ formation?

Hello,

My take on this:

1) Yes, no LOS needed.
2a) Which mortars/IG's the CO/HQ can command depends on the doctrine of the army. The use of a recce has no effect on this.
2b) There is a difference between 'formation' as used on page 4, and 'formation' as used on page 42. The term 'formation' in this case (pg 12, note 1) is the one on pg 4, 'all units given an order together'. You can give orders to different groups in the same formation (as used on pg 42 'All units with the same HQ') with no penalty.

For example, if you have a battalion HQ with three companies and a mortar platoon as a formation, you can start with the mortars (with the +1). A second order would be at +1 -1 = 0. A third order at +1 -2 = -1, and so on. If you decide to stop issuing orders, you can then command an infantry company (or two, or all three, or just one platoon) with your original CV.

First, welcome to the forum Selous.
From your questions I think you’ve understood it well.

I pretty much agree with OldenBUA but would like to pick up on a few points.
1) Yes, no problem
2a) just to try to clarify & not disagreeing – the recce does have an effect in that you can fire at the nearest enemy unit to the Recce Unit even if it couldn't be seen by a regular combat stand. But you do not get the +1 to the CV.
2b) You can order the mortar with the same command throw as the other units in the formation. If you do choose to split your Command Throws and try to order different parts of the formation separately (I'll call them sub-formations) you can still only choose one of the Recce options available. So, you can use the +1 for EACH sub-formation if using the first option, BUT you can't (for example) use a +1 to CV for the infantry and then go back to the mortars and target the nearest enemy unit to the Recce.

Again, just to clarify – your topic header says “Recce and Artillery Support” but then you have asked about Infantry Guns and Mortars, which are not Artillery Support in this respect. You may have understood it and just chosen the wrong topic header but I just wouldn’t let it lie.
There are three types of Indirect Fire options (I think that covers it):
1) Infantry Guns and Mortars – these are classed as INF (Infantry) and are part of regular formations and can be ordered by HQs depending on the doctrine of the army, or the CO.
The other two come under “Artillery Support” on page 26, both classed as ART in the army lists.
2) Artillery Support Units – these are on-table guns and large mortars. Pete has said these can be ordered by ALL HQs and the CO.
3) Artillery Units – these are off-table guns, naval guns etc. These are ordered by the FAO. In some armies there are other ways of ordering them and the details of that are in the relevent army lists.

Now I'm going to get my head down and wait for incoming.

OldenBUA,

Thank you very much: your explanation is very clear.

Is the +1 you refer to in your example a reference to the +1 Artillery Support Modifier - all requested units are self-propelled? I see mortars as Support Units rather than Artillery Support Units.

INCOMING !!
I've just rechecked the army list for Late Eastern Front Russians and Large (120mm) mortars can be classed as INF Support Unit or Artillery Unit, but NOT Artillery Support Unit as I said. Oh well, you get the gist.

Hi again (and welcome).

No, the +1 in my example is my mistake

You either get a +1 on your command roll OR a shot with mortars (or with a FAO or FAC) at the nearest unit. NOT both! And you only get to choose ONE option, as Albie explained already.

I don't understand how a unit, which can't be seen, by either the Recce unit,the HQ ,CO or FAO ,on the other side of a hill or wood can be the target of artillery .I thought a target had to be at least in view before you could shoot at it

The recce unit is a bit of an abstraction: the unit acts as a 'base' for small recce parties to move further afield, and report back. This is why they don't need LOS.