The Commander Series Forum

As we see on the firing modifiers chart, an extra dice is added to an attack when "the unit is firing on the flank or rear aspect of the enemy unit" and "hits agaisnt the flank or rear of a unit reduce the save value by one".

The only reference for determining this is the illustration at the bottom of page 7.

If a firing unit is placed such that parts of its base fall within both the front AND the flank arcs, how do we determine whether it is firing on the front or the flank of the target?

If the firer can draw a line-of-fire from a point on his base to a point on the target base that falls in the flank or rear quadrant, can he claim flanking fire, even if other parts (or, indeed, most) of his base would fall in the frontal arc?

I'd rule it's always worst case for firer.

IanS

I'd say if half or more of the front edge of the firer is in the flank or rear quadrant then it counts. If less than half, then no.

I should add to my last comment that most of the guys at the club are so bad at estimating 45 degrees that it has to be fairly obviously a flank shot before it's accepted.
Of course this doesn't apply to me or any other club member who happens to look at this forum.

We don't play the 45 deg rule, because it's hard to estimate, AND at a platoon level some of the vehicles may be head on? Hence, we play it that you have to be entirely beyond the front "line" of a unit. Much simpler and less room for doubt.

Dave I'd rule simnialr - all past front edge of the target.

IanS

That, of course, is the Spearhead approach, but it seems clear from the diagram on page 7 that the author intended something different for BKC.

In Command Decision its gone back-and-forth, but I believe at the moment they play any part of the stand in the flank arc allows a flank shot.

I'm tempted to play that way because it allows that +1 die when facing infantry in cover, who are bloody hard to evict! And it helps encourage flanking style attacks by at least making it seem more possible. I find the Spearhead-syle flanking is so hard to get (ignoring flank marches for the moment) that it really becomes like getting around to the rear of the enemy.

Er - it dont apply to infanmtry, only armour, to refelct the reduced tinplate on the side of a tank.

IanS

I believe an extra dice does apply to infantry, but since they don't have a save the reduction is irrelevant.

I agree with Gavin.

Off the top of my head I think it say ANY unit so the extra dice applies against infantry (or anything else).

"I believe an extra dice does apply to infantry, but since they don't have a save the reduction is irrelevant."

The infantry do if they are in trenches etc. The reduction of the save would apply in that situation too.

So if you are firing on the flank at infantry in trenches, not only do you get the extra dice, but their saves are one worse as well. It makes flanking an entrenched position a very good thing to do.

Interesting. I'd never considered the question of trenches.

Neither had I!

For BKC2 we've always treated trenches as having a 5+ save when firing at the front of a unit in a trench and a 6 save when firng at the flank of the unit in a trench rather than judge the trench to have a front and flanks.
This means a unit can turn to face an enemy approaching the rear in order to gain the best defence.
We may have been wrong but it saves having to note which way the trench is facing.

Except of course most platoon sized defensive position asre dug to cover one arc with max firepower OR hedgehog 360 with less firepower.. (Yes being awkward..)

But treating a dug in position as like giving infantry 'open topped armour'* , in gamne system terms, is very intuative way to go as all the arty, flank etc mods work well.


* yes yes I know the best positions had top cover too but rarely.

* yes yes I know the best positions had top cover too but rarely.

Much more frequently than you might think. Rooves were imporvised from anything avalaible, particularly in Europe, where there was lots of material avalaible.

IanS