The Commander Series Forum

Just a small one, say 2000pts or so. My 10 year old nephew will be getting some early Russians and I thought I'd get something intersting to oppose him. All suggestions welcome!

Ta.

G.

Not really, but the following link is very useful for pics of Finnish armour.
www.andreaslarka.net
The following FoW articles may be of use.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1...

Either ambush scenario and force (of ski troops in winter or cavalry/mounted infantry in summer?)for eastern Finland in early Soviet invasion 1940; or fortifications and solid infantry defence with support from field artillery for isthmus campaign in 1940?

Christmas tree formation?

Thanks. The flames of war stuff is handy. Any suggestions for micro scale sources for Finnish stuff? Nothing from H&R or GHQ that I can see?

Skytrex and Scotia dont do any either

Sean

How much specifically Finnish kit is actually required though? Germans can be used for infantry & their armour was by and large captured from the Russians or supplied by the Germans.

Yes, indeed. Part of the appeal is the funky mix of odd kit for me. I guess that I could substitute a KV2 or Bishop for a BT42, and maybe an Ostwind for ta Landsverk?

Their assault troops also seem to be armed with lightsabres - AP of 6/10!

OK, 2000 point as follows, may not be historically accurate, but I think it's a nice, intersting mix:

1 CO (CV9) CMD 60 - 3/30 - 6 6 120 [120]
2 HQ (CV8) CMD 40 - 2/30 - 4 6 60 [120]
8 Infantry Unit (Regulars) INF 10 - 3/30 4 6 - 40 [320]
2 Infantry Unit (Assault Troops) INF 10 - 6/10 5 6 - 55 [110]
2 Infantry Upgrade (Anti-Tank Rifle) INF - 1/40 - - - - 30 [60]
3 Support Unit (MG, Maxim) INF 10 - 3/60 2 5 - 40 [120]
1 Support Unit (Mortar, 120mm) INF - 5/120 5/120 2 5 - 100 [100]
1 Support Unit (IG, 75mm) INF 10 2/40 3/80 2 4 - 80 [80]
2 Tank Unit (T-26) ARM 15 2/50 1/60 2 3 6 60 [120] R
1 Tank Unit (KV-1) ARM 15 3/60 3/80 4 6 4 175 [175] R
1 Assault Gun Unit (BT-42) ARM 25 2/40 3/80 2 3 6 95 [95] R
2 Assault Gun Unit (StuG-III) ARM 20 4/80 3/80 3 4 5 135 [270] R
2 Anti-Tank Unit (ATG, 45mm) AT 10 2/50 1/60 2 5 - 65 [130]
1 Air Defence Unit (40mm, Landsverk) ART 20 2/50 2/60 3 4 6 80 [80] O 2 Artillery Unit (105mm) ART - 3 3 - 3 - 45 [90]
3 Transport Unit (Horses/Reindeer) TRN 10 - - - 3 - 5 [15] #1
1 Transport Unit (Trucks) TRN 20 - - - 3 - 15 [15] #2
2005 points..

Are you going to make miliputt antlers to turn horses into raindeer?!

I'm tempted to add a red nose to one too!

G

So, the Landsverk was developed into the Hungarian Nimrod SPAA, which H&R do list, and the BT42 was developed from the BT7 tank, with a British howitzer in the turret. H&R also do the BT7, so with a bit of dilligent chopping and sticking I may get some good proxies.

Isn't the hungarian Toldi a derivative of the Landsverk design?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftv%C3%A4rnskano... - Landsverk AA gun variant, which was what I meant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toldi_(tank) - Landsverk L60 tank variant

Oh, wait...

L60 became the Toldi, which became the Landsverk AA, which became the Nimrod....

What´s about the reindeer-cavalry???

Found that GHQ do some German infantry in Winter kit that would be ideal. I'm off to Salute on Saturday and will hope to pick up the relevant bits there - keeping a sharp eye out for Reindeer.

Cheers Mark! That's a great list. The beauty of micro stuff is that it will only cost me a couple of quid to do both an early and late force.

BG online won't let me take all the units you suggested for WInter War - only one AT unit per BG, only one artillery unit per BG and assault troops are limited to 2 apparently, so I had to improvise a bit. No AT rifle upgrades that I could see either for the Winter War list?


1 CO (CV9) CMD 60 - 3/30 - 6 6 120 [120]
2 HQ (CV9) CMD 40 - 2/30 - 4 6 90 [180]
1 FAO (CV7) CMD 40 - - - 4 6 30 [30]
2 Recce Unit (Infantry) REC 10 - 2/30 3 4 - 60 [120]
12 Infantry Unit (Regulars) INF 10 - 3/30 4 6 - 40 [480]
2 Infantry Unit (Veterans) INF 10 - 4/30 4 6 - 55 [110] #1
2 Infantry Unit (Assault Troops) INF 10 - 6/10 5 6 - 55 [110]
3 Support Unit (MG, Maxim) INF 10 - 3/60 2 5 - 40 [120]
1 Support Unit (Mortar, 81mm) INF 10 3/120 3/120 2 5 - 75 [75]
3 Engineer Unit (Pioneers) ENG 10 - 2/30 3 6 - 55 [165]
3 Tank Unit (Vickers) ARM 15 2/40 1/60 2 3 6 60 [180] R
1 Anti-Tank Unit (ATG, 37mm) AT 10 2/40 1/60 2 5 - 60 [60]
1 Air Defence Unit (40mm Bofors) ART - 2/50 2/60 2 4 - 60 [60]
3 Artillery Unit (75-76mm) ART - 2 2 - 4 - 30 [90]
4 Transport Unit (Bicycles) TRN 15 - - - 3 - 10 [40] #2

The June 1941 lists for the Continuation war get a bit closer:

1 CO (CV9) CMD 60 - 3/30 - 6 6 120 [120]
2 HQ (CV9) CMD 40 - 2/30 - 4 6 90 [180]
1 FAO (CV7) CMD 40 - - - 4 6 30 [30]
2 Recce Unit (Infantry) REC 10 - 2/30 3 4 - 60 [120]
12 Infantry Unit (Regulars) INF 10 - 3/30 4 6 - 40 [480]
2 Infantry Unit (Veterans) INF 10 - 4/30 4 6 - 55 [110] #1
2 Infantry Unit (Assault Troops) INF 10 - 6/10 5 6 - 55 [110]
3 Infantry Upgrade (Anti-Tank Rifle) INF - 1/20 - - - - 10 [30]
3 Support Unit (MG, Maxim) INF 10 - 3/60 2 5 - 40 [120]
1 Support Unit (Mortar, 81mm) INF 10 3/120 3/120 2 5 - 75 [75]
3 Engineer Unit (Pioneers) ENG 10 - 2/30 3 6 - 55 [165]
3 Tank Unit (T-26) ARM 15 2/50 1/60 2 3 6 60 [180] R
2 Anti-Tank Unit (ATG, 37mm) AT 10 2/40 1/60 2 5 - 60 [120]
3 Artillery Unit (75-76mm) ART - 2 2 - 4 - 30 [90]
4 Transport Unit (Bicycles) TRN 15 - - - 3 - 10 [40] #2

Hi,

biggoober:
"only one AT unit per BG, only one artillery unit per BG and assault troops are limited to 2 apparently, so I had to improvise a bit. No AT rifle upgrades that I could see either for the Winter War list?"

Only one artillery unit per BG? Where did you get that?

I assume Pete presents the ad hoc units loaded with automatic weapons Finns often used to counterattack to regain lost positions by the assault units. The limit is good. Although the limit might be different for Winter War and esp late war. There was no official all-SMG troops.

100 or so Boys ATRs kindly donated by UK were used in the second half of the Winter War. So if you really want to include them in your battlegroup outside the official list, you have an excuse to do it Including the more powerful ATR upgrade would be pushing it. Only two 20mm Lahti ATR prototypes, which those upgrades present, saw action in the Winter War.

Overall your list aren't all too unreasonable. A bit pioneer heavy, but I take those actually present the close support with satchel charges for ATGs. The Continuation War summer '41 list could easily have more mortars and ATRs.

Have fun!

iAugustus //GHQ summer Germans and more importanly DAK paint up nicely as Finns, too. DAKs are must because field cap m/36 was greatly liked by the troops. I know it's perhaps counter intuitive to think DAK figures for Finns, but you really want that field cap into the mix. Esp for summers of Continuation War.

Thanks iAugustus. Straight from the horse's mouth. I'm really looking forward to a change from my usual US tank-centric forces to something a bit different, and I'm working on some nice, snowy terrain, too

The limits were what the BG online told me when I tried to add two different arty units. I assumed it meant only one battery of homogenous calibre in use, as clearly I have 3 stands of the '76's.

I'm bicking up some H&R German HW troops, 48 to a pack, so I should have spares of mortars for continuation war.I'm told Irregular also do some good ski troops and I'll keep an eye out for DAK at Salute on Saturday.

G.

Hi,

I'm glad to help. Infantry based battlegroups certainly have their appeal. That's pretty much all the historically based Finnish forces unless you're fielding the sole Finnish Armoured Division/Brigade. One thing you might consider fielding at times is a captured Russian armoured car unit. It's not in the book, but Finns did have some captured cars, so why not for a special scenario because armoured cars are fun.

"The limits were what the BG online told me when I tried to add two different arty units. I assumed it meant only one battery of homogenous calibre in use, as clearly I have 3 stands of the '76's."
Weird. I don't think there are any such limits in the BKC II book?

Just in case you haven't visited these sites already:
http://www.winterwar.com/
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html

Nice ToEs on those pages. I noticed Jaeger Platoon listed a mortar _platoon_ for '41 Infantry Regiment. While in reality a '41 Inf Regiment had a mortar _company_ with 81mm and 120mm platoons. I notified the site owner who said he had a simply made an error in his notes and he'll correct the error on the next update. Anyway it's a very informative site. Probably the best source for Finnish ToEs in English.

iA

From memory native Finnish armour is very scarce on the ground...

They started the Winter War with a number of Renault FT17s, with the stubby puteaux 37mm infantry gun, and some Vickers 6 tonners..

The 6 tonner is the same design/ layout as the Soviet T26 - except the turret shape is different.

Also, the Finns bought guns for them from Bofors, with sights from Germany - the Germans embargoed the sights when the winter war broke out.

Captured armour - T26, BT5/7, BT7A (mix and match your BT hull with a T28 main turret) and T28, augmented by T34 and KV when the Continuation War kicks in, along with BAs of various marks.

Imported armour for the Continuation war would be Panzer IV and StuG III G

Infantry wise, in 6mm, late WW1 Germans should fit the bill... with Bofors ATGs and French 75s...

oh, and as to formation - someone suggested Christmas tree, so how about hakaristi?

iAugustus

Great idea re a/cars.
great links.

Carl

Good links. Like the idea of the armoured cars.

Got most of my stuff today. T26's and Vickers light tanks are almost indistinguishable at this size, so wish I'd got something a bit different. Plenty of infantry, and getting some DAK spares from my brother to add into the mix for the field caps.

I ordered a British Bishop to nab the turret from and put on the BA7 hull to make a BT42(-ish) - but the turret was missing from the Bishop.... Tsk.

Looking forward to basing them up and getting going.

G.