The Commander Series Forum

I'm sure this has come up before but couldn't find anything with a search.

Under the French special rule "Penny packets" what constitutes an "Infantry formation"?

I play at 1 stand = 1 platoon, so does this mean per platoon/company/battalion?

Ta

Nick

See page 4 and page 42 Formations. A formation is all the units that are given orders together. At 1 stand = 1 platoon this is normally a battalion. So each infantry Bn gets at most a company of armour.

Great - many thanks. I must have looked through the rules half a dozen times......

And, yes I would agree completely with 1 Inf Bn gets 1 company of tanks - this fits (allowing for break downs etc) with Mark's (Micromark) Orbat for a DLM Cavalry Division and A Type Infantry Division.

Oops - forgot the Dragon Portee Battalions each had an integral Squadron (3 Platoons) of AMR-33/35 or H-39's. So it makes it difficult to field with the Somua's they're meant to support if trying to field a historical Orbat!

And as the historical tank support options for the Infantry are R-35, R-40 and H-35's (from Micromark) I'm not sure you can field Somua's and comply with both historical Orbats and the Penny Packet rule.

Hmm... I feel a house rule coming on! - maybe not count any integral armour such as above toward the Penny Packet allowance - it's still going to limit French armour a fair bit.

Any thoughts?

Perhaps discarding the penny packet rule for at least the 2nd and 3rd DLMs altogether?

The penny packet rule, IMO, simulates the fact that French armor was rarely engaged en masse, though there are a few notable exceptions : Hannut, Montcornet , Abbeville and Stonne come to mind. In each of these cases, the lack of proper infantry support and integration hampered the results. On the other hand, the three DCRs (but for the 1st, which was destroyed at Flavion when it was caught deploying by the Panzers) wre committed piecemeal to help toughen up defensive positions.

I would say that the army lists, and therefore the 'Penny Packet' rule, are for 'generic' battlegroups, i.e. not based on any specific orbat. So, if you have a specific orbat, that should get priority. Orbats from actual engagements should get even higher priority.
In this case, it would be fair to exclude the squadron that's integral to the battalion from the 'Penny packet' rule, as I think the rule is meant to reflect armour that is attached from highel level units.

In my opinion I think the "Penny Packet" rule is wrong for this tactical level of gaming. The French tanks were used in "Penny Packets" from a strategic point of view. There were lots of tanks that were not organised into division sized units (DCR/DLM) but were fielded in battalion sized units (bcc) together with large infantry formations.

But if you are fielding Char B1's or SOMUA's then you've got a division sized "armoured" unit and not a "penny packet".

Ive got the orbets for these here...
http://www.littlewars.se/french1940/main.html

Thanks for your input guys.

Chers

Nick

The Penny packet rule is just a generalisation of the fact the French, with few exceptions, commited their tanks to only the infantry support role. It is to stop the player from massing his armour, as that was (for the most part) non-historical.