The Commander Series Forum

Can ANY battery use a 'registered' point to request fire missions without rolling for deviation?
Or does the point only count as 'registered' for batteries that actually have fired a barrage against it? (historically, I would say the latter, but the rules don't say explicitly).

And when does a target point become 'registered'? Does it become a 'registered' point once a battery has fired a scheduled fire mission at it (but not before)?
Or can an FAO call in a requested strike without rolling for deviation at it BEFORE the scheduled mission has been fired? (historically I would say the latter; if the battery wasn't properly ranged in and target data known the scheduled mission would not be any more accurate than any requested fire mission).

Thanks in advance,

Ulf O

Can ANY battery use a 'registered' point to request fire missions without rolling for deviation?
Or does the point only count as 'registered' for batteries that actually have fired a barrage against it?

The former

And when does a target point become 'registered'?

Once you determine your scheduled targets, so before the game begins.

Pete, is the answer you've given above not at odds with the book?

Ref. page 26, third paragraph, second bullet point on what a successfully requested artillery unit may target: “a registered target (*ANY* target defined before the game for scheduled artillery support)” (my emphasis) & the first sentence under ‘Resolving Artillery Support’ on the same page: “Scheduled artillery support hits the aiming point automatically, as does artillery firing against a registered target”.

Is there something else I've missed or is this a new (and not unreasonable) rule?

Well spotted - I've corrected the above

OK,
So, a 'registered' target point counts for every battery of off-table artillery. And the 'registration' is valid from the start of the game.

I think this opens a can of worms that allows some dubious tactics for armies with lots of artillery assets.

Assume I'm late war Russian. I can get a whopping 8 HE assets per battery. I can then buy 3 FAOs, some batteries of heavy arty (let's say 3 x Katyushas or 152mm) and then 2 cheap 76mm batteries. I then schedule a total of 16 fire missions for the 76mm batteries, but not any for the Katyushas/152mm.
That will mean that the 76 mm are kept busy for the most or all of the game bombarding likely Germans hiding places (which is fine).
But my 3 FAOs can put totally accurate fire on any 3 of the 16 'registered' points every turn whenever I like. Ouch. The Brits would be even more horrible, since their FAOs are better quality.

Are we sure this is what we want?

Regards, Ulf O

PS. This will of course cost a lot of points, so might only occur in large games, but still... DS

You have to have a LOS between the FAO/Registered point and pass a command roll.

Hi STeve,
Yes, that is true. Both command rolls and LOS are necessary. So it is not entirely a sure thing. But for rocket artillery in particular it would seem like a huge bonus. The Brits with FAOs CV 8 that will be successful over 60% of the time. And since the FAOs can not be targeted by anything other than Arty/Air, I can concentrate them at the 'schwerpunkt'. So statistically I would expect to get 2 of my heavy artillery bombardments on target every turn with no deviation. (3 would occur about 20% of the time, dito for just one.).
The Russians with FAOs CV6 would be much less powerful.

The only enemy counter this I can think of would be massive arty bombardment to try to take out the FAOs and/or Smoke (but the smoke might hurt the enemy as well).

Regards,
Ulf O

"since the FAOs can not be targeted by anything other than Arty/Air"

They cannot be the target, they can only be caught under a template when the target is a unit or a registered point etc.

Recce can increase the CV of a FAO.

A FAO in an aircraft increases its CV by one because it is hiher than the target (and not a lot can shoot at the aircraft).

Steve

There is one thing that is missing from the book - rockets always deviate

Aha,
Well that does make a real difference. It stops the all-conquering Katyushas from abusing the rules

That was my main concern really, since the rocket arty has so many dice to throw at each target. The other arty can be nasty (especially the Brits with their 8-gun batteries), but not to the same extent.

I guess that should be included in the eratta sheet, then.....

Thanks,

Ulf O

Maybe a stupid Q but how does that deviation work, when you automaticly hit a registered point with rockets?

Pete's addition to Errata:
"Page 26. Artillery Support
Rocket artillery always deviates, even when fired against a registered target."

Now maybe this just me and my non-native English but... I reckon it might be good to make it clearer if this only apply to rocket artillery ordered by an FAO during Command Phase or does it also include rocket artillery assets used in Scheduled Phase. If the latter, info on how many die scheduled rocket artillery deviates would be a good addition, too.

Like said maybe it's just my non-native English and it's bloody obvious too rest of you that this only applies to the ordered fire. In which case I shall go and get my coat

Would indeed be handy to know how rockets deviate when called in by the FAO on a registered target.

Would indeed be handy to know how rockets deviate when called in by the FAO on a registered target.Gimme

Gun Artillery ordered by an FAO against a enemy unit - The number of deviation dice according the distance between the FAO and the target as per the book.
Scheduled Gun Artillery - No deviation
Gun Artillery ordered by an FAO against a Registered Target - No Deviation

Rocket Artillery ordered by an FAO against a enemy unit - Double the deviation dices from the distance(as per book)
Scheduled Rocket Artillery - No deviation (or 3d6).
Rocket Artillery ordered by an FAO against a Registered Target - The number of deviation dice according the distance between the FAO and the target but WITHOUT doubling.

One way to play it The rocket artillery gets some benefit if they use precalculated registered targets but still deviate.

But may The Man voice his official decree

iA //While we are on the subject. The rule book doesn't mention 30x30cm templates for rocket artillery barrages. Going strictly by the book a two rocket artillery unit barrage would be 40x20cm instead of 60x30cm.. Of course if the rocket barrages fire 20x20cm per unit it makes it easy to combine them with other artillery units in a single barrages.

any sugestion Pete on this matter

Rockets are not very accurate, even when fired at known points. They are area saturation weapons at best.

There's no need for a clarification - rockets always deviate!

I think perhaps countwolfheim is asking how the deviation for scheduled rocket fire is calculated, Pete. Page 40 describes how the amount of deviation applicable is a function of the distance between the FAO and the target point. Obviously, there is no FAO involved in a scheduled fire mission.

You addressed a similar point in Q.1 here (http://www.coldwar-commander.com/Downloads/Publ... but as that only mentions air support and is for CWC anyway he may not have thought to refer to it / know it’s there.

Apologies if this isn’t actually what you’re inquiring about countfolfheim.

Thats right on the spot Stu

OK, roll three dice in this case. I just added it to the errata.

thanks Pete your the best.

Situation we had today was an FAO in a plane was within 20cm of a registered target point. There was an enemy unit on the registered target point (it was in a bunker).
If the FAO succeeds with a command roll to fire a naval rockets unit, ignoring a bonus, what deviation needs to be made:

a) Assuming the target is the registered point, 3d6, rockets always deviate?
b) Assuming the target is the enemy unit, zero deviation as distance is less than 20cm and FAO is higher and then doubled for rockets, thus 1-1=0 x 2=0?
c) Assuming the target is the enemy unit, 1d6 deviation as distance is less than 20cm, doubled for rockets, then 1 less for FAO being higher, thus 1 x 2=2 -1=1?
4) Another solution?

A further question, if a rocket unit targets a target point along with another non-rocket artillery unit, do the rockets deviate in the same direction as the other unit(s) but with some addition dice for the distance or does it do its own direction and distance?

It seems my previous post might be just too tough to answer, so my apologies.
Any views on what to do with these non-deviating rockets?

Yeah, rockets always deviate