The Commander Series Forum

Hi,

Here's one for Pete. The subject has been touched on some threads that were originally on some other aspect of recce or concealment. But I can't remember an explicit view from you on this.

Concealment rules on page 6 list when concealed unit can be seen. The last line reads "They are the target of a recce unit (see Recce on page 10)".

Now...

Was the quoted line put in there just to make it clear that concealed units can be target a recce units who don't need LOS to the target of the recce action?

Or

Was the idea that once the unit is the target of (a successfull one I'd assume) recce action they have been seen and are no longer considered concealed?

The difference is of a great importance. If the latter case is the case, once recced a previously conclealed unit can be target of fire by other non-recce units. For example it can be a target for a FAC with LOS that wasn't the closest command unit to the recce unit. It can be fired at on the subsequent turns when that unit isn't recced anymore, too. I.e you could "crack a corner" of a concealed defence line by a recce action without having an unit go to 10cm/20cm distance or waiting until the defence line opens fire/moves.

Hopefully you'll share your intention of the rule. Thank you.

iA

Hi iAugustus, I asked this one quite a few months back and the answer was that only the recce unit can see them. The recce can, of course, let an FAO/FAC target them, but they remain concealed to everyone else.

Hi John,

I've a faint recollection of participating on the thread by just adding a commnent that _we_ have played it the way a recce target doesn't loose its concealed status.

My recollection also is that Pete didn't say a final word on this particular issue I've raised on this topic. But maybe I'm remembering a different thread. Please can you post a link to the topic where Pete addresses this. Thanks.

Or Pete could you please post your say on this topic too.

iA //who really isn't argueing it to be played either way. I'm just curious to know what was The Man's intention and how he plays it in his own games nowdays.

Hi - couldn't find my original thread, but I did find this one started by raf:

http://www.blitzkrieg-commander.com/Content/For...

Hope it helps

John

Thanks. Maybe I'm bit thick but I don't see Pete addressing the issue on the linked topic.

They are no longer concealed

thats clear (and concise) ...!!!
Carl Luxford

Thanks for the quick reply, Sir. Very interesting. I think we need to take a go at it that way now and see how it feels We have been in "the line on page 6 is just there to make it very clear they can be targeted by recce action"-school of thought.

The change certainly opens new possibilities how to tackle a concealed defensive line on the other side of the open field. A successfull recce roll unconceals a unit and you can pile all your fire on that unit. Bascially forcing your enemy to engage with rest of his concealed units.

iA

Can I just confirm that I've read Pete's reply correctly?

Let's say there's a wood in the middle of the board. In that wood is a battalion of infantry. They haven't moved out or used their weapons, and the nearest enemy is more than 10cm away. They are concealed.

So, an enemy recce unit "discovers" them by rolling the right number. Are we now saying that EVERY enemy unit on the table can now see them too (LOS permitting)? If so it opens up a whole new world of tactics and possibilities.

John

Do they discover with one succesful roll only one stand or the whole formstion?

Makes sense to me. Wasn't one of the jobs of recce to "find" enemy positions and the alert the rest of the formation as to their location?

I mean you have an anti-tank gun concealed at the edge of some woods. The recce unit of an armored fornmation scouting out ahead spots the AT gun. Seems perfectly logical to me then it would radio back at least to the battalion or company commander a warning and location and equally logical to me the armor would put down supressive HE fire on the location.

Using the example above lets say an infantry unit penetrates the woods and comes within 10cm of the previously hidden unit, don't all other units now know its location? The only difference is the recce unit was better trained and equiped to spot at a greater distance.

I like the idea as it makes recce more valuable and better mirrors its real world role. In too many games recce becomes merely light forces or expendable cannon fodder.

Panzer-Kalle wrote:
"Do they discover with one succesful roll only one stand or the whole formstion?"

As it has been some days already and Pete hasn't addressed this I'll add my personal view. The concealment is only blown for the unit that was the target(the closest unit to recce unit) of the recce roll.

I'm just curious why you'd think the rest of the formation would lose the concleament, too? Think about a situation when one unit opens fire. The rest of the formation doesn't lose their concealment, only the firing unit does. It's the same situation here.

iA