The Commander Series Forum

Hi All,

Had our first game here of BKCII and first exposure to 6mm gaming. I particularly liked the dynamism of the game; there were several different mobile fronts that did not get bogged down.

A question from the game.

How do you all determine the crest line when the hills are anything but uniform? I can see how the crest line determination works if the hill is a perfect circle and uniform - easy. But ours are all sorts of shapes looking top down and this crest line approach left us scratching our heads a bit trying to work out where the centre of these hills were in relation to other units It got messy quickly, which kind of goes against the grain of how we are finding the rest of the rules. Infact I've gotta say most of our questions in this 1st game were concerning page 6 visibility. Maybe we are looking at it wrong or too closely? Do we ignore the actual real shape of the hill from the side perspective and just treat it as hill/area terrain similar to BUA boundary definition. Or do we just make some hills that are very circular and easier to rule?

Please help us clarify or if you have any other ideas?

BTW We both came away knowing we'd made the right choice on choosing BKC

I wouldn't get hung up too much on this - as you say, you don't want one element of the rules bogging everything else down!

I'd keep your terrain as it is - and if you've got a regular opponent, come up with a workable happy compromise.

Good choice of game - glad you're convinced

My rule of thumb is that if a unit is reasonably close to where the ridgeline is, assume that the unit is on the ridgeline. Basically, I'm assuming that the commander of the unit has some sense and is in the best position for defense. If necessary, I'll ask my opponent whether the unit is meant to be on the ridgeline and move it accordingly if needed.

I draw 1 line across my hills in pencil which defines the ridge line for all to see. It does have the negative effect of turning circular hills into ridges, but it really simplifies the game in respect of line of site etc.

Pontic

" but it really simplifies the game in respect of line of sight"

On the hills I made myself, I painted a line where the crest line would be, leaving a gap at each end. Units with their front edge touching the crest I count as in partial cover.

Steve

Had a long think about this after reading all the advice (all good BTW). I think there are 2 approaches you could take to it.

1) Everything is WYSIWYG. Us a laser pointer to determine LOS on the hill.

> If you can't paint the target it's concealed.

> If you can paint the target AND the target is higher than the crest then it's on the crest line.

> If you can paint the target AND you can paint the crest behind it then it's forward of the crest line.

Pretty simple but makes for some micro-management when trying to get crest line positions.

or

2) Treat all hills similar to area terrain. Define a centre high point for each hill before the game.

> Use the high ground ruling as is i.e determine as and when required with respect to observer and target.

>The crest line however will be a 5cm band and not a hard line.

Option 2's advantages are the declaration of the centre point before the game. No fiddling then with working it out each and every time. And it doesn't matter what shape the hill is either. Just define an agreeable spot to both parties. I thought about using a 5cm band instead of a hard line as this then gives a bit of a grey area for getting units into position from a gaming approach. It's easier to position inside a 5cm strip than a line. Plus I had the idea of using a clear ruler as an aid for hill crest determination. Position the ruler over the pre-defined centre point, spin parallel to the observer front base, and anything fully or partially under the ruler is on the crest. Behind is out of sight and forward is within LOS. Pretty simple and keeps to the book rules and intent.

Thoughts?

For what it's worth...

We've had some fun trying to use the crest line rules as described in the book but failed to see how the crest line could vary depending on the orientation of the lower level unit.
As we use contours for hills, what we now do is extend an imaginery line from centre of the front face of the observing unit to any part of the nearest edge(s) of the target unit. If the distance from the contour to the centre of the unit on the contour is greater than the distance beyond the unit to the same contour then the unit is not visible. It probably sounds more fiddly than it is and could probably be better explained with a picture.
We don't recognise crest lines as giving an advantage as it could also be argued that being silouetted on the crestline is bad. Also, it should be remembered that many vehicles are unable to lower their gun sufficiently to point down hill whilst tilted up on the back of a crest.
We just like to know whether a unit can be seen or not.