The Commander Series Forum

1 In our recent game the concealed enemy (behind an Hedge) in the initative shot up some enemy inf killing them and supressed a MG. In my turn Infantry who could not see the firing enemy moved up to the Hedge line adjacent to the supressed MG, I then ordered these units to fire as the MG has sighted the enemy. Is this correct?

2 In the visibilty rules concealed troops are seen at 10 or 20 cm but if in dense terrain 5 or 10 cm does this measurement over rule the previous?

3 Russian Katyusha Truck, I notice that the artillery rules say that on table artillery without FAO use IG rules except for Rockets and Naval guns. What is the exception meaning?

4 If I fire a rocket battery on table without FAO do I still roll for double deviation.

5 How do I fire an on table rocket unit if I have no FAO?

6 If you use the optional artillery rules 1 Bat=10cm 2 Bats=15 3 Bat=20 what is the measurements for rocket Bats that normally have 30cm.

6 If I use the optional command tank HQ does it still have AA capability?

I have so far only played the game once but my impression is that it as signifacntly improved over what was already an excellent rules set

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. It means you can't have rockets and naval on-table

4. No rockets on table allowed

5. as above

6. No

Hi Panda-Ball,

regarding point 1, don't forget that once the enemy hidden units have opened fire they're exposed! Gun shots and muzzle flashes have revealed their position, so they can now be seen at any distance (although they're more difficult to hit because they're behind a hedge).

cheers

John

John,

Are they visible to any unit on table, even those that don't have LoS to them at the point they fired? That's the crux of Panda-Ball's question IMO.

Panda-Ball, you had 2 q6's and Pete's only answered 1. I'd be interested in the answer to :

If you use the optional artillery rules 1 Bat=10cm 2 Bats=15 3 Bat=20 what is the measurements for rocket Bats that normally have 30cm.

Thanks for the quick reply, the query about the Katyuasha battery was because the Early Russian army list allows a Katyusha truck with a move value 20 so it is deployable on table.

I just realised I am assuming that the Katyusha Truck is a rocket unit?

No it's not allowed on-table, only Artillery Support Units are allowed on-table - the move value just indicates that it's self-propelled

Leave the fire-zone at 30cm for a rocket battery.

Gavin P - no they're not visible to those units that don't have line of sight to them! But the ones that would have had a line of sight to them, if the hedge hadn't been in the way, can now see them as they've been firing.

Pete
Would it of been better to put 'SP' in the move column for off-table (non Artillery Support Units), instead of a number?
Paul

Eh John?

Gavin - I'll have to try and draw a piccie to explain what I mean.

XXXXXXXX Germans behind a hedge - previously concealed
---------- Hedge

YYYYYYY Brits, shot up by Germans


Now that the Germans have fired, any Brit unit that could have seen them if the hedge hadn't been in the way, can now see them. They're not concealed any more as they've given their position away by shooting, so can be seen at any distance as long as the Brit unit has line of sight/line of fire to them. They do still get cover for being behind a hedge and will be hit on a 5+.

So you're agreeing with me, ANY unit on the board can see them as soon as they're in LoS, regardless of when they fired. So taking your piccie above, the germans fire, kill the british unit (only 1). Germans don't move or fire and no other British units establish LoS to the German unit. 6 turns later british unit arrives at same Hedge. British can see Germans?

Gavin - ahh, now I understand what you meant!!

I'd say that if the Germans haven't fired for x turns, then only the Brits who actually saw them firing, or are within spotting distance, can see them. So, for example - let's say that while the Germans were firing from behind their hedge, there was a Sherman lurking out of sight behind a wood on the other side of the board, totally oblivious to the Germans doing their shooting. But there were a lot of Brit infantry units who *could* see the shooting (and may even have been the targets of the shooting).

If I'm right, if the Germans don't move and don't fire again, the infantry will always see them, as they know where they are. The Sherman won't see them unless it peers over the hedge or comes to within 10cm (or whatever the distance is - haven't got the book handy).

That's my interpretation.

cheers

John

GavinP

I agree with you about Germans wiping out unit and then not moving. Those Brit units that could see them because they fired still see them.

Now for two related questions:

1. If the Germans move 1 CM along the hedge, do they drop out of sight for those units that saw them when they fired?

2. Do they drop out of sight after a turn or so of inaction. - British Sergeant, "Bly me, I saw something shoot over there a half hour ago. But I've seen nothing since. The buggers must have moved out."

1. T-Square, without having the rules in front of me, I'd play it this way:

If the German units just move along the hedge, they remain spotted because they have remained in LOS.

If the German units were to move backwards from the hedge and thus breaking LOS, then moved parallel to the hedge. On a second command, they could then advance into the hedge and remain concealed provided there is no enemy within the minimum spotting distance (using the new rule about creeping into cover). I'd force it to be two separate command rolls to do this to represent the difficulty of organizing and moving a group of soldiers back into the hedge without being seen.

2 I'd say they remain "spotted" because even if nothing has happened for a while, you know for sure something was there and take the appropriate precautions including keeping that area under observation.

Thanks for the replies SP for the Katyusha explains why it as a move value.

Gavin P just been putting some question under the folder dumb Russian artillery questions. On our game you had the Nebelwefer on board would have been off-board and +1 to call in as classed as Self Propelled.