The Commander Series Forum

The pedant strikes again!

On page 20 it says that hills counts as cover - presumably it means crests count as cover since forward slopes were notorious for not providing cover (as the Dutch-Belgians or whatever found out at Waterloo).

All the best

Pb

Up to you

We generally play all slopes as cover, the regularity of the wargame table being something of an illusion.

I'd be inclined to agree with Lentulus. Very few hills in reality are anything like a wargames terrain piece, I'd assure that troops would use the crests and folds in the ground to their best advantage.

Graham

Hey Guys!

Your observations regarding irregularities are indeed correct. However they apply equally to flat terrain where this kind of non-specific cover is ignored, so what justification is there taking it into account elsewhere?

Additionally if forward slopes give a benefit then what is the importance of (and historical preoccupation with) crests? Forward slopes have for a long time (probably since the widespraed employment of rifles and effective artillery) been viewed as exposed places (unless other specific cover exists) that are best avoided.

All the best

Pb

Hey Pete!

Okay, I'll put it another way - how do you think it should be played in your games?

All the best

Pb

Yes, I count crests as partial cover.

PB

Could you perhaps consider being a little less forceful/direct in your responses?

I think the answer was 'up to you'.

Personally - I think given that (1) the 'front slope' of any hill is now relative to the viewing units base facing and (2) Cover also applies for indirect fire.
Cover on Hills could be for anywhere on the hill.

Hi AJ!

I do try, honestly I do! Actually although I have the gruff exterior of a biker or North Sea fisherman I'm a very sensitive and timid fellow and I live in fear of upsetting people, so your observation does hit home. Part of the problem, I think, is my writing style, which as you say is direct, and that is something I'm not ashamed of. I do try very hard to say exactly what I mean as I hate ambiguity. However I certainly mean no offence by it. And I unreservedly apologise if I have caused any offence to anyone.

All the very best

Pb

PB

Coolio

How do you manage the Cover for forward slope only issue for artillery attacks?

Hey AJ!

Aha! A variation of that was to be my next question!

I admit that in my mind the way forward slopes are handled with both direct and indirect fire is pretty much a done deal - no cover - just as it would be on the flat. And I think Pete has got it absolutely right that crests should be partial cover to direct fire because of the "hull down" effect (and whatever the infantry equivalent is).

But I'm in two minds(ish) about crests and indirect fire/air support. Part of me says (or at least used to) that you could justify partial cover in that it is more difficult for the observer to call in accurate fire and that it might therefore be less effective. But now that the visibility rules preclude obsevation for much of the time, that is sort of taken care of and just about takes that argument away. And of course if the observers can bring in the fire then the shells/bombs have no eyes and there is no cover from the direction they are coming (i.e. down!). That's the way I'm leaning now.

How about you?

All the best

Pb

If you're on a hill....you get cover.

"Coolio"

I love it when I can demonstrably prove my influence on popular culture

"I love it when I can demonstrably prove my influence on popular culture"

Hey Nik!

What planet are you from! (Oops, sorry AJ, but this time it really isn't my fault - I was provoked!)

Anyway Nik, exactly how old are you? I think a few million Americans beat you to it by a good decade or two as far as "coolio" is concerned!!! Probably the best you can claim on that score is plagiarism! You'll be telling us next that "gravy booby" and "daddio" were your ideas too!

All the best

Pb

Easy tiger...perhaps you are missing some of my easy-going, laid-back nuances here - or perhaps I wasn't explicit enough...

This is an introverted reference to popular culture: I am referring to *this forum*...and I've been using 'coolio' here *forever* - and a good number of my friends & colleagues on this good forum have been using it too...which is why I gave AJ a ref re his usage...his use of the appropriate smiley will be a clue to this [perhaps]in-joke.

Hey ho - and I may be wrong here, maybe out of order [it's been a *long* fecking day] but I think you ought to check the ethos & 'feel' of this forum...no-one - and I mean *no-one* - seems to take anything [least of all themselves] too seriously around here.

As for "gravy booby" and "daddio" - nope, those *definitely* aren't mine; I don't want to come across as a watnk3r

Hey Nik!

No tiger - a pussycat! Ethos? I was following the ethos. "He don't know me very well do he!"

All the best

Pb

Just found this diagram of military terms for hills - thought you might find it interesting:

http://www.specialist-military-publishing.co.uk...

Taken from the Falklands, but applicable to WW2:

"From those positions the British were protected from Argentine artillery fire. The Argentines were not able to place effective artillery fire over the crest of the mountain."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/...

The article is notable for what it doesn't mention - that reverse slope positions can be engaged by howitzers and mortars, once you know roughly where they are.

Yes, I assume they are talking about guns.

Nik,

"Easy tiger...perhaps you are missing some of my easy-going, laid-back nuances here - or perhaps I wasn't explicit enough... "

I would have said you're not so much laid back as horizontal and we prefer you when you're cryptic. It's more of a challenge that way

Gerry

That's a nice diagram Pete...as for Sancho's point, yes that's true - but if you're denying direct LOS then it's going to be much harder to inflict damage at-will and bring concentrated fire to bear...simply 'cos you can't see your target [or the effect of your fire to correct]

Gerry - this forum, in so many ways, is one of my active stress-reductors...and [perhaps sadly ] a *major* part of my social life...ergo you're right: horizontal is good

As for my crypto-ability: the red eagle swoops to seize the umbrella on the station in the dawn mist.

Howzat?

Nik, wasn't one of the strengths of the Belgian candidate for Euro President (whose name I've already forgotten; did he win?) his ability to turn out Haiku?

You're right - his name is Van Rompuy - here's his: http://hermanvanrompuy.typepad.com/haiku/

And in English: http://tweetgazette.com/uncategorized/herman-va...

And mine? Early on a Sunday morning - powered by rocket-fuel?

Dice rolled
The tank brews up
Gamers cry

Now that's not bad eh? For 30 seconds work...

A career in politics beckons...

Hehehe - scary monsters