The Commander Series Forum

Chances are that the answer to my question is staring me in the face from the pages of the rule book, but so far I haven't been able to see it.

When I first organized my collection of Soviets (1 base = platoon level), according to my sources the HQ of this particular Tank Brigade rode a T-34/85. So I accordingly modelled the commander standing in the cupola of his tank, sweeping the horizon with his binoculars looking for opportunities to kick the Fascists out of their evil lairs. (Translation: I spent a lot of time on converting both tank and figures, so the model stays!)

I've added the price of the tank to the price of the HQ (or CO as the scenario would dictate), which I assume is the correct procedure (?). But I am confused regarding move distances. The army lists state that a T-34/85 has a move of 30, while the HQ/ CO stand has a move of 40/60 respectively.

So does having a commander mounted in a vehicle reduce move distance accordingly to that of the vehicle, or does HQ/CO status automatically override vehicle stats, conferring a speed advantage (a souped-up diesel engine?)

I'm new, but my guess is that the movement rates are not "flat our racetrack" rates, but movement when in combat. So a tank platoon moving is going to stop every once and while, receive orders, check out a location to ensure no enemy are present etc. A commander is driving without as much distraction since he's not worried about shooting at anything really. So even if he is in a the same tank technically, he can cover more ground more quickly.

Having said that, you can move your commander into harm's way, and are penalized for that if he ever gets charged/overrun. But such is the risk of leading from the front!

The movement rate of a CO/HQ unit is not dictated by the figure type on the stand. You can have a CO stand with a tank represented on the base, but it still moves the 60cm for the type of command unit on the list.

I have a lot of HQs modelled as tanks - but I treat them as HQs for all stats - not as a combined HQ / tank stand.

Also, you don't need to pay for the CO/HQ + unit type, just the command stand cost. The command stands are representative, so what you make them look like is up to you! As for movement, it's as PL says, 60cm for CO and 40 for HQ/FAO/FAC, and they are treated as infantry for the purposes of terrain.

I have tanks as HQ of tanks battalions, and a PZIII as the OP for my SP artillery, and quite happily park this on church towers!

Thanks everyone, just what I needed to know.

"The command stands are representative, so what you make them look like is up to you! As for movement, it's as PL says, 60cm for CO and 40 for HQ/FAO/FAC, and they are treated as infantry for the purposes of terrain"

That's good news- saves a whole lot of points right there!

I organized my collection originally for Command Decision, so am trying to see how it adapts to BKC. If I get this right, the HQ company of a 1944 Russki Tank Brigade in BKC terms then would consist of;

1 cmd. T-34/85- 75 pts
1 recon motorcycle SMG stand- 45 pts.
1 staff radio truck- considered part of the command point cost?
1 engineer unit- 40 pts
1 halftrack for the above- 20 pts
I heavy recovery tractor- as with the radio truck?

There were no stats on the Russian list for the m/c, so I "borrowed" the rating from the German list which did have them. Likewise the ratings for the halftrack from the British list.

I also didn't find any stats for A/T rifle units. Are these considered integral to rifle/ SMG platoons (as is the case with Spearhead)?

"I have tanks as HQ of tanks battalions, and a PZIII as the OP for my SP artillery, and quite happily park this on church towers!"

Reminds me when I was in university. The engineering students would routinely- and mysteriously- drag a VW Beetle to the top of the main clock tower. That, or suspend it under a large bridge. I'd like to have seen them try that with a PzIII, though!

Infantry units automaticaly have A/T weapons, in case of Russians A/T rifles. Just take a look at your army list and you'll find the A/T rifles with the notes. But this will change with the arrival of BKC2.

"1 cmd. T-34/85- 75 pts
1 recon motorcycle SMG stand- 45 pts.
1 staff radio truck- considered part of the command point cost?
1 engineer unit- 40 pts
1 halftrack for the above- 20 pts
I heavy recovery tractor- as with the radio truck?"

The Command stand and the Radio truck would be combined in BKC. As has been mentioned the CO/HQ stands are representative and would include communications assets, defense platoons, AA, etc. Otherwise the above TO&E would work just fine.

Stavka, are using Command Decision or Test Of Battle sources?

I collected and organized all my Russkis basically using the lists that came with my original boxed version of GDW's Command Decision back in the late 1980's, which I bought along with the "Bathtub Barbarossa" module.

I'm unfamiliar with Test of Battle. A later version of CD?

I do have other sources as well, namely the Spearhead lists as well as various articles, books and TOE's on the RKKA of the time.

The CD crowd is a great bunch of gamers. Very TOE oriented, and so great resources.

They have late war stand-platoon TOEs here:
http://testofbattle.com/drupal-4.7.4/

and if you check the toe section of the forums you will find all sorts of unit data.

As you have doubtless realized, the challenge is the different command model. The CD model is very low level. Generally, each model in their TOE is a platoon, even if the CO is riding on it. If building to one of their TOEs I always put in the command tanks as a combat vehicle, and then try to judge the number and CV of the command stands separately, using the BKC army lists as a general guide. For example, the staff radio truck suggests that the HQ or CO for that unit should have a slight higher CV than the norm to represent the better coms infrastructure - for which, of course, one should pay the points cost.

With the recovery vehicles, supply wagons and the like, these have special rules in CD. Unless they have a function in BKC (or a house rules for a scenerio) I just leave them out.

This last month, I've been working on both my Tank Brigade and on organizing it, in line with the helpful feedback I got on this thread- thanks all!

I've posted the charts on my blog, if anyone's interested.

http://forwardtothewest.blogspot.com/2009/12/qu...

I still have to work out what I'll need for the remainder of the Forward Detachment- the 1006th Rifle Regiment as well as other assets.

All OK but the A/A Halftrack is the M16 with four MG.
The M17 is a A/A with one 37mm and two MG 12,7mm

All OK but the A/A Halftrack is the M16 with four MG.
The M17 is a A/A with one 37mm and two MG 12,7mm

Easily remedied! Thanks for pointing that out.

I think you will find that the M17 is the same as the M16 ie Quad 50' Machineguns, its just the vehicle manufacturer is different.

It is the M15 which was armed with 2 x 50' cal and one 37mm. I don't think any of them went to Russia.

Stavka, I really like your presentation.