The Commander Series Forum

I am looking to start playing BKC in 20mm, however I am slightly disconcerted by the huge number of half tracks I'll need, both from a cost point of view and that of filling up the table...

Can I get away with using (at 1 stand = 1 platoon) 1 half track for each company, rather than 3, or will it have unforeseen side effects?

My copy of BKC is the previous version (I know, I need to get the 'new' version), so apologies if it is covered there...

The main side effect I see is if your half-track gets kacked with the company embarked you loose the entire company rather than just a single platoon. That could put a crimp in your battle plans really quick.

I've watched 10mm games on the table and you get the wheel block to wheel block effect when you start getting a bunch of troops on the field. Personally I don't like the look of that. I imagine that this will be exacerbated when the units are twice as big. Of course that depends on the size of your playing area.

I think that 20mm and larger should be limited to skirmish type games. The type with each unit representing a single vehicle or man. Future War Commander has great rules for this sort of thing that can be adapted to BKC.

As far as BKC with 1 stand = 1 platoon I'm really a big fan of 6mm or even 2mm. (Some of the 2mm stuff that people have linked to on this site is absolutely amazing!) You can get reasonably sized battle groups on the table. You don't get the wheel block to wheel block effect. The cost is considerably much less for more units. On the table you get the feel for the sweep of maneuver. I really think it looks so much better. But then I've been told I'm a bit weird.

That said, its a hobby. If you enjoy the big stuff, have at it.

Ah, but the problem is, I have loads of 20mm already but not enough half tracks for 19 per battalion....

If I were to start again now, I'd probably go 15mm. I do see the advantages of the small stuff, but they are too small for me to paint in the style I like to paint in..

The best thing to do is double-up, so each truck or half-track carries two infantry units.

Personally I feel half-tracks and other transport are death traps for your infantry. Better have your grunts foot-slogging it into battle. If you want a fast unit to grab an objective just provide transport for a few platoons.

Adrian

With you on that one Adrian.

Half tracks and trucks were largely only ever used to get troops somewhere 'near' the fighting.

If you take em into battle - expect to lose them and any units they transport

I play BKC with 20mm and allow 1 stand in a universal carrier, 2 stands in a H/T and small truck, and 3 stands in a full sized truck. When KOed, one stand killed and any remaining dismount suppressed.

Chris

That's a good compromise, Chris.

I use a house rule similar to what Chris said all the time in my games. If the transport unit is destroyed, each unit being transported rolls a D6 taking that many hits and is automatically suppressed. I just figure when the artillery starts coming down, most sane people get out of their coffin on wheels and look for cover. A house rule like this, or what Chris mentioned above could make 3 infantry per halftrack playable - assuming you allow similar transport values to the opposition as well.

Perhaps try a few games without/with few halftrack APCs?

You could re-cycle half tracks by staggering the arrival of troops and re-use as they get brewed up!?

Or mix motorised with non-motorised companies?

As a fellow 20mm player I made up lots of transport kits but rarely use them on table as they are easy targets although realistically in some situations, like ambush on column you might need them; or when using a large table for 20mm encounter game otherwise they can look silly with wheel to wheel (or track to track deployment).

Mind you can now get the US half track kits, two to a box, in simple kit form from Italeri, as I have, and they look good when made up; as good as any more detailed kit, when playing a big game. Tempting? Or use resin kits likeFrontline who alos have a good half track kit in simple form that wont break the bank, although if you bought 20 that would set you back £80ish?? So perhaps recycling them is best idea?

Car Luxford

I like the idea Chris had. I think I'll go for that one, although I may go for 1 half track per company, just to keep things 'simple'..

Off course as MiniPatton points out, all vehicles in the game would have to have the same values. As I'll probably be providing both sides, this should work out.

This should then give me the 'look' I am after...

Thanks all!

I use the same houserule that Chris does and am very happy with it. If there are mixed infantry types in a transport, just dice to see which one bites it.

I have enough transport in 1/87 to not need to double up, but it just looks way better reducing the battlefield clutter by using the Small 1, Medium 2, Large 3 carrying capacity.

We'd experimented with Light Truck (one unit transported) / Heavy Truck (two units transported) distinctions and I always quite liked them; a little concession to 15mm.

"Personally I feel half-tracks and other transport are death traps for your infantry ..."

I agree. It seems to me that HE is way too effective against them even though protection against shrapnel was a main consideration in developing APCs.

"That's a good compromise, Chris."

You would say that Pete, because you've used the variable capacity idea (though not the "some survive" concept) in CWC! Indeed I was surprised and disappointed not to see it in BKC2.

Puzzled

"It seems to me that HE is way too effective against them [infantry in armoured halftrack] ..."

Oops, this refers to BKC2!

Puzzled

I agree, unless its a massive table most troops (infantry) dont need the transports. And no reason you can slowly buy a few every other week till you get enough. Me, if gone without them for the most part with no problem.

Cheers 2nd BB

I find it handy to have enough SPW to lift a company (~3 stands) if I want to attach panzer grenadiers to a flank movement. Otherwise, just more targets.

Not that I don't plan to buy enough for everyone *anyway*

The 2-3 per truck rules make sense -- I think CWC has something like that -- but trucks should not be around nasty men with guns. SPWs, OTOH, are out there to play tag with the bad guys, so multiple stands is a risk.

What Chris said. I have enough halftracks and trucks to use 1 per platoon, but I don't like the look on the table. 1 per 2 platoons works very nicely. Forward vehicle carries two rifle platoons. Reserve vehicle carries 1 rifle and 1 support weapon.

I think by and large the troop capacity of vehicles is correct and should not be changed A platoon was transported by 4 half tracks or light trucks which equates to one model. With soft transport not counting towards losses and a truck carrying 2 or 3 stands the temptation to keep them on the table in an unhistorical manner is perhaps too great. This could be offset by doubling or tripling the unit cost in points games though.

Having said that I would propose increasing the capacity of lager trucks such as the Bedford QLT. One of those transported a whole platoon therefore it should be able to carry 3 stands IMHO.

Another thing to consider are Armoured Engineer companies. Both the Germans and US had enough halftracks in the company to transport one platoon. If you increase the carrying capacity that single model will end up lifting the whole company unless you start listing exceptions which I think runs against the simplicity of BKC which is one of it's major assets.

I too dislike trucks/half traks...way too flaky. Go by foot and use a few tank riders where you need speed.

A few positves...typically quicker than trucks and as quick as half tracks, Yes the tank riders can be targetted by the enemy but in most cases the opposition attacks the tank percieiving it to be a greater threat.

Also if a tank fires on a soft skin invariable it dies killing your passengers, tank v tank the more likely outcome is hit but not killed meaning your passengers disembark supressed.

cheers, Craig
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