The Commander Series Forum

Here's yet another question..

Certain units either don't have HE or didn't have AP.

Although I realize that BKC2 will differentiate this, for now, can a weapon that can't hit a unit still do ANYTHING to it? i.e. could a 2pdr on a Matilda II still suppress and push back an infantry unit even if it can't knock it out through hits? Or can they simply NOT shoot at that type of unit?

I see that most infantry units are at least 1/20 vs armor, so it looks like they are just way less effective.

Thanks again,
Chris

To my understanding units that can't "hit" certain targets can still suppress them (ie a MG can surpress a tank) which did happen. The target does not take a hit, but suppression is figured as normal.

Panzerleaders right.

A unit that cannot cause hits against a target can still fire at it although the target unit me only ever become suppressed by the fire.

The 1/20 vs Armour given to infantry units equates to anti-tank rifle fire - which can cause a hit AND Suppression.

Naturally the chances of a 1/20 anti-tank rifle doing much damage to a Matilda is not easy, but when you try out some early war games you'll find they'll have a surprising amount of stopping power.

thanks!
This leads to a followup question. If you can surpress a tank with MG fire, can you force it to backup > 10cm and DIE still with MG fire once it is supressed?

Just checked the book, from what I see there a unit cannot be forced back by suppression fire.

"Just checked the book, from what I see there a unit cannot be forced back by suppression fire."

Ok, if that's true, then I'm confused. I'm reading page 18. Under Fall Back, it says "If the unit is already suppressed, test for fall-back instead." So do you mean that it can be suppressed, BUT once suppressed, further hits are not counted as usual? That actually makes sense I think.

It really isn't 100% clear in the book. I would have to leave up to a more authorative figure around here to make the official call. However, I would say that it would not not cause fall back.

Units can be forced to fall back by non-damaging hits; i.e. armour can fall back from MG fire; it's just quite difficult to do!

Well, that settles that.

Thanks David.

Title thread = "Can't hit armor"

<raises hand sheepishly>

LOL

What do you mean Nik? From what I hear your armour gets hit repeatedly.

"Units can be forced to fall back by non-damaging hits; i.e. armour can fall back from MG fire; it's just quite difficult to do!"

So the final question I think would be this: Can a non damaging hit still cause a knock out if he forces a unit that is supressed back far enough? I know its a bit finicky, but I'll be demoing BK next week and want to make sure I know what I'm doing so the guys get a good impression

Given the above I would apply the KO rule if forced back the 10+cm.

Yes it can cause KO hence artillery strikes on armour followed by a couple of HMG's can cause a run away or abandonment. Don't forget that in BKC not all casualties are actual knock outs; loos of fuel, ammo, bailout etc etc.

w00t! Perfect. Thanks guys. That is great since it means that even Heavy Tanks aren't totally immune to things like this. After all, for every hit, there's a chance of a supression, and for every supression, there's a chance of running away! I think I saw this in another post about using American Heavy Tanks...

Don’t forget, though, that fallback isn’t cumulative. In order to get a tank to run away you’re going to have to get it to fall back in excess of 10cm as a result of a single lot of fire. So, yes, you could get a tank crew to (in effect) bail out and abandon the vehicle but it ain’t gonna be easy…

True, but there is A chance. Some games you just can't hurt the front armor at all!

"...Roll one die for each unsaved hit taken in the current attack,"
If the firing unit cannot hurt the unit in question - i.e. MGs vs armoured units, then no amount of MR fire will have any effect on tanks.
Fall back is caused by UNSAVED hits when already suppressed.