The Commander Series Forum

Several of my gaming chums and myself are going to start a small BKC campaign set in NW Europe 1944. We have decided that any losses incurred during games are actual losses and should be deducted from the starting army. We realised that off board artillery does not actually feature in the game itself and cannot be attacked (therefore can't be lost). This would mean that throughout the campaign the only way artillery strength would be reduced is if the model was on the board ie. self propelled, this seemed not very realistic. We pondered this for a while and decided that if a battlegroup failed a breakpoint test and scarpered the artillery stood a chance of being abandoned in the retreat and therefore the player must roll to see if the various units made their escape. We are going to start by saying that on a 4+ they get away and see how that plays. I will keep you all posted as to whether this 'house-rule' works or not.

Tostiq,

If a BG breaks it hasn't necessarily scarpered - more of a stategic withdrawl . Also, the size of the gun may/will determine how far back from the battlefeild the artillery is: bigger guns will be well out of harm's way (theoritically at least! - I don't have any useful data to hand)

The type of game you're playing will also determine what happens off-board: if you're attacking, and the attack fails, you're unlikely to abandon your artillery; more likely to fal back to pre-attack lines and re-think things.

There is one scenario where off-board art is on-board (Exploitation I think), and this would be useful for dealing with opponent's artillery.

Just some thoughts. I've not done a campaign yet using the BKC system (or any other!), so feel free to do things as you see fit

KD

Tostig
Trust me, the last thing that the Artillery would leave behind would be the guns (ie. the colours).
If only for the following reason:-
They would be grunts if they did!
Paul

Thanks for the input guys. I can see that there is some element of this not being realistic, but without any specific rules for counter-battery fire I don't see how artillery can be affected by any encounter (other than Exploitation). The rule was mainly intended to deal with the Germans increasing problem of lack of transport, I didn't envisage the allies either breaking or losing any artillery in the long run. It might be back to the drawing board on this one though.

If it is to represent the germans have a lack of transport for their guns, then may be say that the guns are 3 losses back from the front line. So if they suffer 3 losses then they will be overrun.

You may want to allow a low capacity for movement - say 1 unit per game. But as it is moving it can't be used to support that battle.

Allow the allies to use counter battery fire (as CWC). FAO's can request fire against batteries that fire, but only 5.5", 155mm and larger guns may be used. Two batteries firing should be able to take out an enemy battery. Optionally, also allow air attacks against firing batteries, but use the FAC.

The Germans should not be allowed CB fire.

this is something i have allways wanted is counter battery fire or air strike. i play blitzkrieg on the pc which i no is diffrent but in the game you can use counter art fire and air strike's. the other thing im going to do is to do games where the art is on board ( this is in BKC2) so cant wait to get the rules.

The only thing is, is that when Allied OP planes flew over, ALL German guns fell silent, Arty and Flak.
They knew that a load of CB arty would be heading their way.
Paul

I am going to 'sleep' on this one for the mo. There are a lot of interesting ideas being mentioned and it needs more careful consideration. I could leave it as the artillery is unaffected by battle results, but photos of the Normandy campaign show large amounts of abandoned equipment. This includes field artillery, but not usually the larger stuff. I am going to concentrate on the victory points and objectives for the moment and come back to this.

Thanks for all the interest.

Paul

I wonder if those abandoned guns were a result of Falaise pocket closing more than anything else.

Another idea:
Side losing the battle rolls 1D6 per artillery piece.
Major loss = 5 or 6 rolled means a hit check is needed
Minor loss = 6 rolled means a hit check is needed

Hit check roll 1D6 (-1 for SPG) and if the # rolled is equal to or higher than the unit's hits, the gun is lost.

they could be abandoned due to being attacked by paras being droped in from behind the lines.

Siggian-
That sounds interesting and it could apply to the Allies as well as the Germans. I think you are on to something there, as it can be justified as being due to CB fire or being abandoned for whatever reason. We will give it a try. I hope to create a blog (never done that before, whole new experience there then) to keep folk informed and maintain interest of the players.

Another suggestion:
If the looser is decisively defeated - an attacker win in a breakthrough or whatever - in the next game the loser must pick between no guns (they are busy displacing) or guns on table, and at the leading edge of the deployment area (go get 'em).

Lentulus-
I like that idea and it can be incorporated with Siggian's idea to perhaps prevent the overkill capabilities of the Allied artillery, not that I envisage the Allies suffering too many decisive defeats.

You guys are forgetting one thing if the FAO is ellinated then the off board stuff has been rendered useless.I don't think the off board arty be effected too much even if your BG was defeated in one battle unless they were taken out by CBF.