The Commander Series Forum

Oooh...something cropped up as i read through the rules last night.

When do actions happen?

Iniative
Say 4 INF react to the closest enemy INF. 2 want to fire at it and the other two want to close assault.
The 2 shooters have different attacks (1 has 3 the other 4).
When do they shoot?
When are the effects of shooting applied?

When do the other 2 move in to close assault?


On orders
HQ orders 4 INF units to act. 2 shoot, and 2 move in to close assault one enemy INF.
When do their actions and effects apply?

For intiative actions do each one seperately, and in any order you want. Effects of shooting are applied immediately after each unit has fired, so you can cause an enemy unit to become suppressed then fall back.

So if you want to assault, it's handy to be able to try and suppress the uni you're assaulting first!

In the orders phase, all shooting at one enemy unit is resolved together (and effects applied immediately). Whether you move first or shoot first is up to you, but generally's its better to shoot first fior that all-important suppression.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the advice Kiwidave, with your clarification i've re-read the relevant sections and sorted it out in my head. Excellent!

I'll be interested therefore in seeing how initiative and command sequencing affects play (and therefore tactics used).

On a point of further clarification, you say,

'In the orders phase, all shooting at one enemy unit is resolved together (and effects applied immediately)'


OK, but it does say, i think, 'roll for all units with the same attack value together' (or words to that effect). Is this just useful advice or does it mean that units with differing attack values shoot at the same target in different sequence?

No, they all shoot together, but you roll one bunch of dice for each - there aren't many instances where you do that, but it can happen.

Luddite,

Remember some weapons have different effects, such as hyper velicity penetrators reducing saves, pulse tearing holes through units and hitting the one behind.

Kraytonians... mmmm

Excellent cheers chaps.

Aha! So, what about Opportunity fire?

The way i read it, its an out of sequence initiative action but its resolved as for firing under orders?

Correct?


And suppression fire?

IS that simply the same as for initiative or ordered fire as appropriate, but only inflicts suppression?

Opportunity fire is an out of turn action by you whilst your opponent has their turn (or vice versa).

When your opponent gives a move order (or move & fire or fire & move etc...) you may interupt the move at any point as he moves his figures and shoot at them. So if he orders 5 stands and moves two then you can pick the third one if it's a juicier target.

They must be in line of fire etc... and only DF weapons can do this (unless an army list says otherwise).

You may also opportunity fire at enemy who fire, but for this you must wait until all the units under orders have completed their firing. If the opponent has given a mixed bag of orders of fire & move and move & fire then treat each firing group, ie two of them, as seperate actions for opportunity fire - at least that's how we play it.

It is resolved in the normal manner but may prevent you taking an initiative action next go - this does not apply to all armies.

Yes, suppression fire is normal fire but you do not score hits, you just fire and if you get a 'hit' you then roll for suppression as normal.

And with opportunity fire, if I suppress him with my first shot, can I then fire an eligible unit at him again and cause a fallback? Or is all opportunity fire at a single target resolved together?

Yes, all opportunity fire that is in response to an action should be declared at the same time, so you need to have decided that before hand. Remember opportunity fire is a snap reaction, so waiting to see combat results is not allowed.

Effectively fallback will never occur from OF because it's all part off the same firing and if an element becomes suppresed it's not able to be ordered again.

So...i'm still unclear.

So, in terms of TIMING, Opportunity fire is conducted like ordered fire (all units at once), not initiative fire (1 unit at a time)?

Yes.

But you must declare all the firing and may not add in units once you've started.

Excellent, cheers.

So, to recap:

Initiative fire
At closest, conducted one unit at a time, with effects applied before the next unit shoots.

Ordered fire
At any in LOS, all units firing at one target fire together. All effects applied after all firing.

Opportunity fire
As ordered fire.

Suppression fire
As relevant type of fire but only inflicts suppression.


Got it, cheers chaps.

So, onto tactics, which is the best sort of fire to use?
Does different types of fire have different valid uses?

What 'firing tactics' do you use?
How do they work out in winning games for you?

There is no 'best' sort, the sort are just when they can be used.

Suppression fiore can be used as initiative, ordered or opportunity and even response fire to close assault.

Technically ordered fire wouldbe best, because if you succeed with the order you can try order again.

Opportnity fire can only be done in the opponent's turn, and then only once... but that could be a critical once.

You'd only fire for suppression if absolutely necessary as it's a longshot (literally sometimes).

As for firing tactics, at longer range gang up fire to ensure units are killed off. If you get a 2nd round of fire pick off hi threat targets like shielded items even if suppressed, you may not get another chance. Then target unsuppressed units with hits to at least get a suppression or if lucky take them out. If you get a third lot of shooting keep go back to picking off nearly dead targers.

If you are shooting prior to an assault then go for massive suppression across the enemy, otherwise their response fire will be lethal!! Each and every suporting unit they have that has LOF gets to shoot each of your units coming in!! That's a lot of fire power!!

Thanks stenicplus, very useful advice.

I was also thinking that with opportunity fire it might be best to spread your fire out as much as possible to try and suppress lots of units rather than kill them, mainly to stop the opponent getting multiple ordered shots.

Is this viable? Does it work?

Yes, there is merit in that and it's viable. You'd make the call depending upon what's ordered. Remember using opportinity fire may prevent you using initiative, it does for most armies, some lists allow it though, and will give you a -ve to your CV if those units are included in an order in your turn. So opneing with everything could hamper your next turn.

Note of course there is no opportunity fire during the initiative phase.

If I'm on defence I nearly always take any opp fire shots offered in my opponents turn. I figure that the -1 to my command roll next turn is a fair trade if all I was going to do with that first order was shoot at him anyway. If you're in defensive positions you're not doing a whole lot of moving about normally - and can use your CO to move about reserves.