The Commander Series Forum

Can orbital bombardments be used for counter battery fire?

No

Aye i figured that. Its clear in the rules so no worries.

My further question therefore is - why not?

To expand, it seems odd that orbital fire and indeed air attacks can't be used to silence enemy artillery. I'd be interested to know why the decision was made to restrict CBF to just artillery batteries.

Cos otherwise your arty would last about a nano-second?

Hi Nik,

Well since Pete said in the 'preliminary bombardment' thread that he wants to get away from the WWI/historical way of fighting i think that's a good thing!



It just seems a bit strange that an army with orbital bombardments but no artillery can't do anything silence the enemy guns (CBF)!

Cant refine targetting enough. All that atmosphere getting in way.

ianS

So how does it refine targetting enough to hit on-table units (potentially very close to your own units)?

CB fire is done more at a strategic level (or at least at a level higher than the game scale is played at) I would have thought, so the focus of the on-table elements/commanders is the immediate tactical problems they face.

My 2p

"So how does it refine targetting enough to hit on-table units (potentially very close to your own units)?"

Those are better located, you have a rough range and bearing from your location. Bear in mind - with WWII kit you gat get it down on target PDQ - one of my own - Fire at Grid 123-456, Left 2000, Right 1000, up 100 Fire for effect.

With lasers, GPS, and GSR you can get 1st round down on tagert 9 out of 10. Unfortuneatly hostile arty is not visible, well in normal circumstances anyway. If it is visible hit it with direct fire.....

CB - at least counter mortar - NATO doctine is that any battery which has detected is to engage. Most batteries from 70's onward had a counter mortar radar, by now these are tweaked to get to normal shells.

ianS

I'm still not convinced really.

I think i may houserule that CBF can be conducted by artillery, aircraft and orbital strikes (using up a 'shot').

It's all very well to suddenly allow aircraft to CBF vs artillery, but how do the artillery counter the aircraft?

And how do you propose the off table artillery defend themselves from said aircraft?

I suspect game balance might be an issue but it would be an interesting experiment, let us know how it goes.

'but how do the artillery counter the aircraft?'

How do they 'now'?
I guess sticking an AA gun with the artillery might help?


'And how do you propose the off table artillery defend themselves from said aircraft?'

As above...

'I suspect game balance might be an issue but it would be an interesting experiment, let us know how it goes.'

Why would game balance be affected?

I find it odd that artillery CBF enemy artillery when the far more effective (and rational) option would be to vape it with your own airpower or orbital bombardments.

I'll have to have a think about how its done though, but simply allowing an airstrike or Orbital strike vs the enemy artillery instead of your artillery would seem sensible.

Here's why i'm asking.

I'm planning a campaign set in the 32nd Century of 40k (during the Age of Apostasy).

The Frateris Templars have seized control of a manufacturing world (key arms supply).

The Adeptus Mechanicus send a fleet to restore the world to their control, easily gain orbital supremacy but can't simply 'nuke the world from orbit' as they want to avoid damaging the factories too much. So they'll lauch a ground assault.

In the early phase at least, the Frateris Templars will be dug in, with lots of artillery support.

The AdMech will have light assult troops supported mostly by orbital bombardments.

It seems odd that these bombardments can't attack the off table artillery...

I could just say 'well the orbital hits have wiped out the artillery', and not use either but it seems a shame to not use the rules.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't try it or they are silly ideas, but I playing devil's advocate

"How do they 'now'? "

But artillery is off table, they can't counter aircraft. But you may have meant that anyway?

"I guess sticking an AA gun with the artillery might help? "

And then you have 1 AA units less on table. And many armies have AA restricted to 1 per 1000ap.

"Why would game balance be affected? "

Well, artillery is weak defensively so allowing additional units to target it means it is very likely to not be part of the game after turn 2. Also, I think once lost they count to morale losses (although not to the original count) and so low break point armies will collapse very quickly. Not much of a fun game.

Should we not eschew the traditional view of 'artillery'? Who's to say my artillery are even on the planet for your aircraft to strike? I'd simply declar them off planet in 3 different locations.

If you allow aircraft to CBF (assuming the artillery is planet side) then why not just allow some stands to go off table and destroy the artillery in a commando style raid?

It's can of worm... If your aircrfat can hit my off table artillery, can my artillry hit your aircraft whilst they are grounded off-table? ...A far more effective (and rational)...option

Can my aircraft hit your aircraft whilst they are off-table with an intercept mission?

All good points old chap.

I'm loath to use house rules unless absolutely neccessary, but it just seems odd to me that in a sci-fi environment, the oly asset that can hit an artillery asset is other artillery when logic dictates tat other assets should be equally capable of doing so...

If I counter battery fire - does the enemy battery still dice for suppression? Sounds logical to me?