The Commander Series Forum

Hi Pete,

Found a bug in the Finnish list for CWC in the online generator.

Set to 1957 for year, and BMP-2 is available as an ATGW asset, and the RAKH 89 rocket launcher is also available as off table support. BMP-2 is later I know (but not when) and the RAKH is 89 onwards (I believe!).

Oh yes, and it shows T-54 available and they weren't delivered until 1960

Stug III/IV with long 75 should be available up to 1966, T-34-85 & T-34 with 76mm to 59, as well as various marks (but probably coverable under one awful stat line) of T-26's.

Probably all limited to 3 per 1000 and [9] total? Dunno how worth it adding these are, am not convinced many people play early cold war Finns but thought I'd say for reference whilst you're not doing anything else

Thanks, will take a look when hell freezes over

This is odd as I don't get a BMP support unit, but I do get the RAKH 89 - probably just missing a date on that.

I've added a few more dates and all the extras apart from the T-26 - I mean, really

Hey, when it's your main MBT you gotta have 'em

Something for NATO M48's or Sov T-54's to pot shot on the way to Helsinki

They make a really handy mobile BBQ...

Is there a hard copy of this or is it only in the online generator?
Or have I been sweating for 2 years when it's been here all the time!
H

Ok, at least one person plays early Cold War Finns, then

Probably not, I just mentioned the ones I was interested in off the top of my head

Pz-IV added!

I can see a trip to H&R for Xmas coming up...

Politely... (again!)

Is there a hard copy of this or is it only in the online generator?
Or have I been sweating for 2 years when it's been here all the time!

So could the Reds have pressed for their war aims?
Would anybody else have interferred?
And what armoured transport did the Finns adopt/buy/steal?

H

It's online only at the moment.

Cheers

Hi Pete & others. I just found excellent and reliable numbers of Finnish heavy weaponry in deep cold war era. If this is old news, I´m sorry, but on the other hand, I´m not!

First some anti-tank weapons stats from 1.7.1966:

Kevyt sinko 55S55 9325pcs (light recoilless rifle)
Raskas sinko 95S58-61 563pcs (heavy recoilless rifle)
Panssarintorjuntaohjus Vigilant 164pcs (anti-tank missile)
Väylätorjuntaohjus SS-11 48pcs (coastal defence missile)
Panssarintorjuntakanuuna 75PstK40 183pcs (AT gun 75PAK40)
Panssarimiina 210000pcs (AT mine)
Do note: none of these AT weapons is of Soviet origin

Same date, armour:

T-54 43
T-55 22
Charioteer 38
(Z)SU-57-2 12
PT-76 12
BTR-50 25

By 1.7.1972 the numbers had grown to this:

T-54 42
T-55 52
T-55K 10
Charioteer 37
(Z)SU-57-2 12
PT-76 12
BTR-50PK 60
BTR-50PU 8
BTR-60PA 1
BTR-60PB 53
BTS-2T 2
MTU-20 4

Procurements later in 1972 were:
T-55 +12
BTR-60PB +30

Procurements in 1976-1977 were:
BTR-50PU (command units) 50
KTM5M (mine clearers) 10
MAZ-537 (tank transporters) 6

Not bad, I think. The T-72:s and the BMP:s came later.
Regards, V-P

Cheers, that's useful

I wonder how a PaK-40 would fare against a T-55... cool stuff, thanks!

You´re welcome, great thanks to Pete for creating the xWC! If Huey´s questions are still relevant and unanswered I´ll try take a shot at them, IF you mean 1944-45 period:

Q: So could the Reds have pressed for their war aims?
A: I´d say in the autumn of ´44, no. Their mass force was needed in the thrust towards Berlin. The Finnish army in september was stronger than it was in june, when the offensive began, and it had better defensive positions geographically. And, Stalin thought we could be dealt with later.
Q: Would anybody else have interferred?
A: While the war against the Germans was still raging, I´m sorry to say no-one would. Our field army was ran down after the armistice before Christmas -44 and the war turned against pushing the Germans away from the Lapland. Had the Soviets come up with an idea to invade the south before Germany had surrendered, I suppose it would´ve happened with blessings from the UK and the US.
Q: And what armoured transport did the Finns adopt/buy/steal?
A: Armoured transports? The first M3 halftracks were bought from the US surplus stocks and were employed as artillery tractors. They made a weird combination in the ´50-s, American built h/t:s towing German-made 150mm howitzers. Then became the stuff bought from the Soviets, see above for starters. I´m not sure if we ever adopted or stole anything, at least I can´t recall any armoured transports as a war booty from motti campaigns.

Hope this still helps, V-P

The Russians may well have got lost with directions like "through the woods, along the lake"

I was actually thinking JUST post-war, sort of 1946 to 1960.
And thanks for the 1966 stuff...

Oh, Stalin was convinced there´d be a post-war revolution or at least a win in parliament elections by communists, that would lead to peaceful occupation by Soviets. The Finnish people was wiser than that

The Red Army would surely have conquered whole Finland back then, but the cost would have been heavy even for them, and Stalin knew that. Help from the west? Can´t say.

Glad you liked it! Btw I love that 'lost between forests and lakes'!

I've seen some of those trees and lakes too!

You have no map, and your resupply is... somewhere. You have ten miles of petrol left, and about an hours worth of ammo. You are in a snow covered forest/identical snow covered tundra/six foot of mud and marsh.

What do you want to do?

"Go north"

You do not know where north is. You are ambushed by Finns. Lose a regiment. What do you want to do?

"Go south"

You do not know where south is. You are ambushed by Finns. Lose a regiment. Your men are hungry. What do you want to do?

Negotiate a satisfactory peace deal, and go somewhere else!

Peace is negotiated, and you have secured a buffer zone for Leningrad, the people of Russia and the revolution. Your reputation is destroyed along with your Division.

Viva Uncle Joe!

I suppose it´s time for a pair of Finnish military anecdotes, I know they are OT in this thread, but

A Finnish commander gathers his troops and gives a sit rep: "The enemy is in front of us, behind us, on our left and on our right. That means we´re surrounded. Now the enemy can´t run away from us!"

Finnish infantry general Adolf Ehrnroth was visiting the UK in the fifties. On a formal dinner a British general insisted that he admits that there are Soviet soldiers in Finland. Ehrnroth said that yes indeed, there are a few hundreds of thousands of them. The British got excited for finally hearing this and next demanded facts about their location. "All along the Fenno-Soviet border, buried two meters deep", replied Ehrnroth.

Love those anecdotes.