The Commander Series Forum

I need help turning the list of available toys into viable units to play with. We are going for an Israeli counter attack against dug in Egyptians.
I have found this list for Egytians (http://orbat.com/site/toe/issues/I3/Mod%20-%20Arabs.pdf) that seems reasonable, how should I turn that TOE into a CWC unit?

10 BTR 60
13 BTR 50 plus 82mm mortars and recoiless rifles
BRDM 2 6ea
BRDM 1. ATG 3 5 ea
ZSU 23/4 4 ea
ZSU 57/2 4 ea
BTR 152. 25
Towed 23mm AAG 2 ea
130mm How. Towed 5 ea
57mm towed AAG 3 ea
BMP 1. 13 ea
PT 76 5 ea
T 55 25 ea
T 62. 16 ea
T 10. 4 ea
T 34/85. 11 ea
JS 3. 5 ea
SU 100. 8 ea


Israeli centurions 25
M51 super Sherman's 15
M48. 15
M60. 10
AMX 13 10
M113. 20
M3 half tracks. 30
Jeeps with recoiless. 5
M 16 or T 20. SPAA. 8
M106 mortar 4
M125 mortar 3
T 55 captured 5
M7 Priest. 5

10 BTR 60
13 BTR 50 plus 82mm mortars and recoilless rifles

Taking these together I'd go for a company of infantry with BTR-60's and a heavy weapons company.

In CWC either 3 Inf + 3 BTR-60, 3 Inf + 3 BTR-50, then 1 82mm Mortar + 1 Recoilless + 2 BTR-50 or double the infantry if you prefer a platoon to be represented by two stands.

BRDM 2 6ea - 1 stand, recce.

BRDM 1. ATG 3 5 ea - 1 stand (ATGW version)

ZSU 23/4 4 ea
ZSU 57/2 4 ea
- 1 stand of each.

BTR 152. 25

Are these for infantry transport, logistics or tows for the AA & howitzers?

Towed 23mm AAG 2 ea
130mm How. Towed 5 ea
57mm towed AAG 3 ea

1 stand of on table arty, assuming the guns were deployed on the "table top" and weren't off table firing in support. If off table, one battery's worth of indirect fire. Towed by a BTR-152 if on table.

I'd combine the AAG's into one stand, and give them a BTR-152 for a tow.

I suspect there's then an infantry company in some of the remaining BTR-152's so - 3 Inf + 3 BTR-152 (or 6 Inf if you prefer).

BMP 1. 13 ea - 3 Inf + 3 BMP-1

PT 76 5 ea - 1 stand, recce.

T 55 25 ea - 5 stands of T-55.

T 62. 16 ea - 3 stands T-62

T 10. 4 ea - 1 stand T-10

T 34/85. 11 ea - 2 stands T-34/85

JS 3. 5 ea - 1 stand JS-3

SU 100. 8 ea - 1 or 2 stands depending on how they worked IRL and whether you feel they need the extra or write it down to even out five vehicles equal one stand.


Israeli centurions 25 - 5 stands
M51 super Sherman's 15 - 3 stands
M48. 15 - 3 stands
M60. 10 - 2 stands
AMX 13 10 - 2 stands
M113. 20 - 4 stands, 4 or 8 Inf.
M3 half tracks. 30 - 6 stands, 6 or 12 Inf.
Jeeps with recoiless. 5 - one stand
M 16 or T 20. SPAA. 8 - 2 stands

M106 mortar 4
M125 mortar 3

Mortars - either one stand with the better factors, or if they were split up IRL and fired in support of two different battalions, then two at lower factors.

T 55 captured 5 - 1 stand
M7 Priest. 5 - 1 stand, on or off table depending on how close in they were!

Wow. Excellent!

A stand would be one unit then, one formation? (with an HQ or would that be way too many HQ's)

This will be a game for newbies, 2-3 per side.... so more HQ's would be better ;-)

A stand is one model on one base, one "in game unit".

HQ's you'd need to assign as required. I suspect two for the tanks (as that's @two battalions, Israeli style), and one or two for the infantry & support weapons. Deffo two if you're using two mortars on table. Being flexible these can effectively roam wherever needed and command anyone...

With 2-3 players per side I'd probably go with two players on the Israeli side and use CO+ 1 HQ for one, and two HQ's for the other.

For the Egyptians - the Egyptians have eight "modern-ish" MBTs, so I'd group them as one unit and parcel out the rest to the infantry in dribs & drabs (I might be wrong but I think that was doctrine, the heavies and the older tanks got to play infantry support? The SU's as well, although something reminds me they might have been dedicated AT assets like the ATGW vehicles?.

So - 1 HQ - T-55 & T-62, PT-76 for recce, ZSU-23-4.

You've three infantry companies (either 3 Inf or 6 Inf plus their APCs and heavy weapons). Give each a HQ. I'd probably add a tank to each (T-34 or IS/T-10), and parcel out the ATGW and SU as well so each has something meaty. With the remaining AA assets I'd give each one a stand, assume they're a kind of a composite of the remaining weapon systems - probably give each a 57mm towed gun?

That gives you three reinforced infantry companies for holding the line, plus a tank battalion for counterattack purposes. Four HQs plus a CO should be enough for three players - each gets an infantry position, someone gets the tanks as well and they can fight over the CO

So when you say 25 tanks are 5 stands..... that is 5 formations of 5 tanks each, correct?

I am thinking I may be generous with my HQs.... allows the newbs maneuver. Suck them into the hobby

No, sorry - it's five models. One formation of five on table models, each representing five "real world" vehicles (which I'd assumed the above list was showing ).

I'd try to give each player two HQs, so they've a "fail and try again" sort of chance, with the CO in reserve for anyone who really buggers up!

With that in mind it might be worth breaking down the egyptians a bit more and beefing them up to the double strength infantry. So you can split out the ATGW and SU's to make a composite AT unit, strip the odds & sods tanks from the infantry commands and make them into one unit under one HQ.

The first line says "A list of the available toys..."!

Ah, I may have misunderstood the list - I thought that was the scenario orbat you were trying to use not what models you had...

Can't do much of a break down on the phone, but as a rule of thumb for Sov style I'd go with 6-8 units plus a HQ, so say go with a BTR 152 as HQ for six T-55 plus a ZSU of some kind. That gives enough troops the HQ can lose a few before it becomes useless due to lack of troops to command and not so many you can't get the Rigid Doctrine CV bonus.

Because the Isreali use Flexible Doctrine you can give each player two HQs and let them parcel out the troops and swap as needed

So this is the weekend for our game, nearing the end of planning An Israeli attack towards the canal, Egyptians waiting for them.

Tell me what you think!

I am planning on 2 players per side, each player will be given a starter force and be allowed to alter the formation structure if they wish. Starting force is about 2100 for Egyptians and 2300 for Israelis. Also each player will be given an amount of points to spend on "extras" - arty, air strikes, minefield, additional units etc...

Each Player will start with:

********Israeli********
CO (CV 9)
HQ (CV 8)
HQ (CV 7)
HQ (CV 7)
FAC (CV 6)


Tank Company
9 Sh'ot Tank

Tank Company
6 Magach

Armored Recon
1 Sh'ot
1 Infantry
1 w/bazooka
1 Zelda APC

Armored Infantry
6 M3 half track
11 Infantry
4 w/ bazooka
1 M3 SP 81mm mortar


********Egyptian********
CO (CV 9)
HQ (CV 8)
HQ (CV 7)
FAO (CV 7)
FAO (CV 7)


Mechanized Infantry Company
6 Infantry
6 w/RPG-7
1 SAM -7 AAM
3 Sagger ATGM
5 BTR-50

Assault Gun Battery
4 SU-100

Anti-Air Attachment
2 ZSU-23/4

Tank Battalion
5 T55