The Commander Series Forum

Why are on board mortars more accurate than off board? This question stems from the fact that in our Vietnam game today, American on board mortars were pounding the "heck" out of the VC, when American units were only 5cm away. It seemed to us that mortar fire was too accurate.

When off board mortars fire at the enemy, a template is placed on a target and any thing, friend or enemy is hit by the incoming rounds.

Also are on board mortars/artillery limited to being used once per turn like artillery support? This would help fix the way to accurate on board mortars.

Justin

The American player must have been getting some good command rolls to make the mortars that effective! Each successive order for them to fire adds a -1 to the CV.

How may on-board mortars did the American player have?

Often becasue they can see the target - open sights is roughly 5 times as accurate.

IanS

The mortars were part of the same formation as the American infantry that were 5cm away. The mortars were about 30cm away from the target. Those extra three dice on target hurt big time after the infantry fired.

I would have thought an FAO would be more accurate than an CO or HQ though?

This something I've not found to be very clear in the book. I take (game) it that off board mortar support targets like on board mortars (ie a single target...no template.) Even a 120mm mortar bomb doesn't have the potential of even the smallest arty shell, IMO.

Just out of curiousity I noticed that in CWC it states that...mortars, rockets, and naval artillery are classed as off board assets. In BKC heavy mortars, rockets and naval artillery are so classed (MM are on allowed on board). It sounds like in the CWC wording all mortars are classed as OB, is this correct? If so why is this not reflected in the stats on the lists?

Anything offboard is artillery - it uses a template. It must be called in by a FAO and can only be used once per turn.

Onboard mortars fire at single bases and are commanded by a HQ or CO. The more successfull rolls, the more attackes they get.

Onboard mortars adding 3 dice to infantry fire can tip the balance, knocking ut enemy more quickly. Unless concentrated, off board artillery just tends to suppress.

Ok, I have to sound off on this.

"Anything offboard is artillery - it uses a template."

To have the same blast area of a battery of arty you would need a s**tload of mortars. Most battalions usually have about a platoons worth, maybe two. How many mortars are in a mortar platoon (standard)? Even considering the 20-30 minutes a rd represents, I think you would be asking a lot of the crews to put out that kind of firepower in reality.

Most bttns will have 6-8 mortars in a 1/2-decent army. Artillery batteries might be 4-8 guns. WW2 British batteries might be 12 guns, but they get a BIGGER template anyway - 30cm, not 20cm. Mortars will probably have a higher rate of fire than an artillery piece. I've not got any HE filling data to hand, but a 120mm mortar probably does have more HE killing power than a 25pdr (about 88mm - how ironic is that!). BUT, the mortar has less range. Hence, I think, off board "artillery" mortars should have a template.

The on-table mortars are offering (hopefully) rapid, under local comand HE fire support. They represent this slightly different role, hence they are more accurate, hitting sinlge units. The fact that several orders got to them is simply good luck?

I'd be reluctant to change what is basically a sound mechanism simply because of one "lucky" stonk!

My question though was about accuracy especially when the unit you are firing at is in jungle.

Sorry, I thought this was a BKC question!

Right then - the jungle terrain won't make any difference. Once the target is located then it's located! The target co-ords are passed to the mortars via the HQ and then they fire on those co-ords - a small concentration but at a high rate of fire - hence single target, 3 attacks. The fact that there's a canopy of leaves and branches won't make the fire less accurate, but it will provide some cover perhaps. Does that help / make sense?

Ok, just did a brief search of a couple of internet sites on the subject. The German 81mm mortar could throw out 6rds/8-9 secs (this ROF could not be mained for long-no specific time period.) I could only find specs on the US 4.2" mortar (simalar cal. to the German 120)it had a ROF of 5 rpm for 20mins or 1 rpm indefinetly.

Going on these I would say that a possible change to mortar rules might be in order. From what I have seen in my brief search today I cannot see a mortar platoon putting out the same level of firepower as a battery of field guns. I will have to continue research, however.

Good answer Mark but work on that last sentence It's the teacher in me.

I mybe wrong, having not taken the mortarmens course while in Reserves, but my point is towfold, and I guess I may not be clear. 1) mortars can out perform larger field guns, yes, but only for a very short time. To be useful over the range of a battle I would assume they would have to "pace" themsleves (ie not putting as many rds down range) thus effecting the blast area. 2) and this maybe where I am really wrong, how much explosive is in a mortar bomb compared to a like arty shell?

More Pl, as there is less stress at firing. Disadvantage as Mark mentioned is the lugging of ammo, plus they are easy to locate using radar, a side effect of the trajectory.

To give some idea a battery of 6 105's was rated the same as 2 81's in the British army in the 70's, but only for FDF, (final defensive fire), due to the weight of fire they could deliver.

IanS