The Commander Series Forum

Hello
I want to try out the rules for hidden deployment tonight but find some of the rules a bit unclear. First of all how do you move fake markers? The rules state that you use the CV of your HQ but these guys don’t have HQ’s. I recon you just use the value of your normal HQ’s. Second and this is the part that bothers me the most. How do you reveal your hidden troops? The rules say that you need a successful command role do reveal them but as most guerilla forces have a rather low CV they can easily end up failing this role. Does that mean that they have to sit tight and wait to get spotted by the enemy? The rules also say that troops are revealed when they open fire. Now this makes more sense in an ambush situation. Can hidden troops reveal themselves by using opportunity fire?

Cheers
Christopher

I get the feeling the hidden deployment rules were something of an after thought, and need a fair bit of reworking or assumptions of how they should work clarifying from Pete - but as he's no longer involved with the rules that's unlikely!

What do people think? we never really used them successfully and shelved them as a "bodge if we use it, we'll look at it later" sort of thing

We played a Seek and Destroy scenario last night using the excellent Balkan rules from this very forum. Arkan was on the loose and had to be captured by the UN forces. Hidden setup was very important for this game to work for the Serbians. We used the rules in the following way.

Role for blank markers as in the rules and move them about as in the rules as well using the CV of the CO. To reveal your troops takes a turn but does not require a command role. Your troops spent the entire turn revealing themselves within 20 cm of the marker. While the troops are hidden there is no opportunity fire or any fire for that matter. Should you get spotted, your troops deploy within 20 cm of the marker but can do nothing else. Your interpretation of the rules try to make sure that hidden deployment doesn’t turn into a big ambush, because that’s what would happen if you were allowed to fire on the turn you get spotted or by using opportunity fire. Hidden setup is there to shadow your deployment, not to make ambushes. Should you get spotted, you still have a good opportunity to get out of the way with the 20 cm deployment, but there no ambushing the enemy, when it happens.

Any that’s how we used it last night and it worked fine for us. Again hats off to the Balkan addition to the rules.

Cheers

Look at "Hidden movement again" on page 6 of this forum, CWC Rule queries. A few ideas...

Nicely remembered Huey, I think that thread had percolated deep into my subconscious as it chimes with how we'd then been treating hidden movement (on the rare occasion we did!).

It's a hoot when EVERYTHING starts hidden! And it does create a "pregame" as the recon fight for superiority.

Looking back at the previous thread and re-reading what's said here, I think that we played all our hidden movement wrong. We DID say if you move >10cm then you have to place down, but we took this to mean per order. I now think it means per turn. Hence units don't fly around using hidden - they slowly "creep". Is that the consensus here now?

BUT - no one has managed to answer what happens when a marker is hit by pre-planned artillery, or wanders into an unmarked minefield.

From memory of last time we used it on table we decided both minefield and marker were revealed. Artillery - we never really worked that out...

"Artillery - we never really worked that out..."

I've given you 3.5 yrs to work it out - since April 2013!

(actually, I think it's just best to ignore it)

My 3p worth is that if a marker is hit by an artillery template is (assumingly by accidental drift or via an overlap from an eligable target - as they cannot be targetted directly) then they must be revealed - same applies for a hidden minefield. Mines going off & vehicles burning from artillery strikes are a pretty good indication to me that something or someone is a creeping up on me or a minefield is there!

Then casualties/hits are worked out as normal

It's a simple solution, and as you say, it's accidental. I'll just make sure that my markers are far enough away from valid targets!

Coincidentally the latest issue of Miniature Wargames has an article on using hidden movement rules in games. Not had a chance to read it yet though; got to go and do that work thing first.

Yes, perhaps simply revealing the minefield AND the troops is best - even if it's a dummy it could still be just a few folks.

The original issue came down to the problem that the once hidden units are placed within 20cm of the marker - hence they can all be placed outside the minefield. similarly with arty strikes.

Overall though... still a little confused

I keep thinking back to flames of war, just deploy the minefield where you want like their ambushes, and have it trigger the hidden unit. At least one piece of the hidden formation entered the minefield and MUST be diced for. (either your cheapest unit or the most mine resistant!) If no unit then the dummy disappears in a puff of logic.

Discuss...

Hi. Back to the forum after years...
as frequently happens i went through my library and this time decided to dig out CWC..
so I had a refresh of the rules nad found some doubts..
Regarding Hidden troop attempt location.;some points are ok some not.
a CO orHC or Recce could attempt location during initiative. CLEAR for me
the may attempt if a marker is within Los.Doubt for me.so no distance limit.? Am I correct?
other units need to be in Los and within 20 cm. CLEAR for me.
not clear is the table regarding number of dice to roll.
is it supposed that each unit attempt start with a 1d6 and the dice table states only modifiers? Otherwise i could not understand how rules for HQ CO e recce attempt (hidden markers to be in los with no distance limit) could be aligned with 0 dice condition for marker further than 50 cm.
Thanks for your opinions!

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