The Commander Series Forum

Hi all,

Was wondering how people viewed these lunatics in CWC?

Since I'm playing Soviet in this year's Crisis Point megagame, i thought it would be worth a discussion regarding their fair use on the table.

My force for CP2016 is the Soviet 810th Naval Infantry Brigade. There are other units and assets in the theatre, including a brigade of Naval Spetsnaz, but anyone who has been on the receiving end of a battalion of these popping up where you least appreciate it, will know how seemingly disproportionate their abilities are when you are trying to winkle them out of cover.

With each stand receiving the recce ability, you seem doomed to receive a stream of artillery and airstrikes, with each stand rolling as a FOO/FAC as required. Even with low CV, the odds are you'll get what you want more often then not. I appreciate that there is an attempt to represent better training and access to superior comms and targeting gear than your (very) average FOO, but if fielded in greater numbers i.e. company plus, is it not fairer to assume that not every squad is carrying krasnopol or is a dedicated observer as well as a fighting unit.

I was considering pointing them as elite infantry, dropping 20 points for the recce ability, but keep one stand in the battalion as a recce unit. According to my source,the platoons consist of only 2 squads of 7 men; at 4 platoons per company I figured that 2 stand companies would be appropriate. Fielding them as a battalion woulc see 6 fighting stands, 1 recce, 1 HQ, plus any attached brigade support (AT4 or SA14).

Any thoughts?

Gordon is your man

He has played Spetsnaz for years, to all of our costs!

It took my Dutch most of last years Hannover game to get about 8 element of spetsnaz out of a wood on my flank. I even got so frustrated as to put an FAO in there and order an artillery strike on his own position!

I'll have to use Navy Seals or my Elite Greek Frogmen if they appear in Aegean Strike

I too have been on the receiving end of the Spetsnaz and can readily sympathise. It seems that the problem lies in what is meant by "recce ability" and some rather "liberal" interpretations of that phrase. So, a Spetsnaz unit will be a Recce unit during the initiative phase, won't need to be given orders & can communicate with HQs. Then in the command phase they suddenly become infantry units, given multiple move/fire orders, but still counting cover as one better, the same as any recce unit.

I think we need a clarification that Spetsnaz have the ability to communicate like a Recce unit, but are not actual Recce units, so do not receive the other advantages, such as counting cover as one better. Plus, if they attempt to communicate during the initiative phase they then cannot be given orders during the command phase.

I would also clarify that the +1 CV bonus to a HQ from a Recce unit is not cumulative: you cannot surround a HQ with 6 Spetsnaz and give him a +6 CV bonus.

As to the number of units attempting to communicate as Recce, this would surely be a doctrinal thing? Elite forces are not that numerous and would be give specific missions before the battle, such as take that objective OR act as a FOO, not both. It seems a tad unrealistic for a HQ to turn to 6 units and say "everyone, radios out, dial this number!" So perhaps some sort of restriction in the number of units per formation acting as recce as Nick suggests would be in order, say one per formation? Thus if there are 9 Spetsnaz units all acting independently they could all communicate as Recce if they wished (which would make sense as they would be acting as a recon screen), but if there are 9 gathered as one formation, with the same HQ, only one could use the Recce ability (which again would make sense as if they were gathered together they would be acting as elite infantry e.g. to storm an objective).

As we are using points and army list restrictions this year any Soviet force would be restricted to 3 Spetsnaz per 1,000 points and a maximum of 9 per army. This restriction, taken with a few clarifications as suggested above, should provide enough Kryptonite to make Spetsnaz useful & interesting, but not war winners by themselves.

Oh, and any limiting of Spestnaz abilities should also apply to SAS and any other similar troops.

I like your thinking & totally agree

Just throw some kryptonite at them, that should calm them down.

Hey - remember the double damned Dutch recon unit that beat the snot out of 3 assaulting Spetsnaz stands with MG and mortar support, guess they were being protective of the 'chocolate cake' in the ration packs.

the main pain these guys caused apart from the AT-4 stands of course was the recon ability and FOO calls.

My Sovs for this year may or may not have these, as we are inland I'm not too concerned with frogmen though will avoid any resorts with swimming pools or jacuzzis just in case.

Surely they can't "fight" and be treated as an fao or fac!

Recce means hit in a 5+, but then they can only do initiative fire? Sounds like cheesy play to me!!!

Dutch armoured Recce are well-ard! It's the moustaches and mullet hair does and all those funny smelling cigarettes!

But these Spenastys are not 'real' Recce
They are a reconnissance unit - so one of them does the Recce bit, another can do the FoA bit another the FAC bits but that usually leaves the other stands in the unit to create havoc.

Also yes, hit on a 5 but then they are usually holed up in woods or BAUs, so that's another +1 to hit.

Hi,

I play it this way :

At the begining of the player turn of the soviet player he announces if his spetsnaz will be recce unit (with all restriction and advantages) or infantry unit, for the whole game turn.

Try it if you feel like it...