The Commander Series Forum

I have an entire Soviet VDV battalion mounted in Mi-8 transports, including a FAC and FAO. The only non-heliborne unit is an off-board arty unit.

1. How do I deploy if everyone is heliborne? Do I place the helicopters carrying the FAC and FAO in my deployment area, place the arty unit on my baseline and then have the FAC roll for air assault until I succeed and/or schedule Air Assault assets? What about my heliborne mounted CO and HQs? Or do I have to ground deploy some units?

2. Are helicopter transports treated as Arm='Aircraft' or Arm='Transport'? i.e.: If my opponent gets partial air superiority, do each of my Mi-8 transports--during called and scheduled air assaults--get attacked by 3 dice on the turn they attempt to land? If he gets full superiority is it 6 dice? On contested turns I can land neither called or scheduled air assaults, correct?

3. If I want to use my flank deployment special rule while heliborne, how does that work? As 1., above or do I have to deploy 1/4 of my non-command force on the ground, as per the deployment rule?

4. Can I 'lift' and move a unit/formation with unused or already used helicopter transports if it has already air assaulted or started deployed on the ground? i.e. Because helicopter transports are Arm='Transport', can they hang around the battlefield like a truck or APC?

5. Do I automatically win the 'Pursuit' scenario?

6. Is it correct to assume that attack helicopters are treated as Arm='Aircraft' with regards to air superiority?

The game wasn't written with this in mind, however, I'll do my best to help!

1. Heliborne assaults are called in by the CO or an HQ, so you'd place those at the edge of the table.

2. Yes they do come under the rules for air superiority.

3. You'd use a helicopter with an HQ in it I guess.

4. You can lift troops (it works like an air assault).

5. Sounds unfair to me.

6. Yes

Thanks and leave it to me to come up with the unlikely scenario, it seems! I'm going to try this force out and see what happens. If my opponent(s) gain air superiority I'm thinking it's going be a rather short game.

Just find some Sukhoi's and a bunch of Crazy Ivan pilots and have a Wild Weasel party on his AAA formations. Before you send in the Helos that is.

You could try deploying Spetsnaz teams (recon ability) and FACs on table - then use a pre-planned airstrike to draw enemy AA fire at which point the (hopefully boosted by recon CV?) FAC calls in a PGM strike on the SAMs.

Sorry I can't think of anything that'll help vs air superiority!

not sure but i think i remember an earlier post asking a similar question, and the answer may have been not to include helos in air superiority.this was to allow for historical instances such as egypts helo assault attack on israely forces. israels total air superiosity would make this kind of scenario virtualy imposible. i might be mistaken, it was a long time ago, memory not what it was etc.

Problem with everything to do with airpower is its impermanance. It is possible to achieve the ability to conduct air operations in a tactically discrete time and place even if the, slightly dated, idea of air superiority is against you. This is something that'd need to be written into the scenario - perhaps the attackers start with air superiority (through local concentration of air power) but the defenders gain a more historical represntation of air superiority after a number of turns.

sgraham / adam. I think it was me who asked about heli assaults and air superiority.

IIRC Pete said then ignore the AS for the assault...?

Dr Dave - for a pick up yes, if you wanted to simulate something in particular (desant ops in NW Europe perhaps) then a sliding scale of AS may be more appropriate.

Adam. I assume he meant assault and/or pick up. How would your air defences / CAP know the role or destination of the helos? Why would a pick up not be subject to AS, but an assualt would? Is that what you mean?

I was meaning a pick up type game! With a scenario you can get a much more subtle and realistic use of desant forces - operationally flexible but tactically fixed. Even if a window of opportunity can be created to allow the air assault in it may not be sustained, making it dangerous for the helicopters to hang around.