The Commander Series Forum

I just want to get a few things straight in my own mind...

The errata note tells us we must buy an assets to perform requested fire with special munitions. Fair enough. Would this be assets over and above any bought for scheduled fire? i.e. if I buy an asset of, for the sake of argument, chemical weapons for scheduled use during the game am I also covered for requested fire or do I need to buy another? If I am covered, what happens after the scheduled fire takes place and I have no chemical assets left? Would I then lose the ability to make requested chemical shoots or would the fact that at the beginning of the game I had had one be sufficient to carry on making the requests?

Also, does a successful special munitions request use up an asset potentially preventing you from making any more?

Another thing I wondered was certain scenarios (such as 'Encounter') tell one or both sides “No artillery or air assets are available”. Fine. Others (such as 'Encirclement') say no “assets for *scheduled*” (my emphasis) support can be bought. Is this distinction intentional? It seems to indicate that, in these scenarios, whilst one couldn't purchase scheduled special munitions assets there's no bar to picking them up for requested fire but I'm not sure if that's what was intended.

stu

The way I read it, is that Assets for Scheduled Fire is for one round, ie. One Asset = one turn of Scheduled Fire for one Artillery or one Aircraft unit.

Therefore, I would think that Assets for Requested Fire is for use during the whole game, ie. One Asset = whole game for one Artillery or one Aircraft unit. For two units, it cost two Assets.

As for your last paragraph, I think it was intentional.

Paul

Gun-Pit Paul- thay makes sense actually. Can somebody confirm it it was meant that way( i.e Pete? )

"Therefore, I would think that Assets for Requested Fire is for use during the whole game ..."

FWIW (not much?) I interpreted rules as meaning the assets for requested shoots using special munitions work in the same way as assets for scheduled shoots - i.e. one asset, per unit, per game-turn.

Puzzled

Puzzled

I figure that the balancing act here is the Command roll for the FAO's and FAC's (with the -1).
You always get it turn up on Scheduled Fires, but for Requested Fires, it's a gamble (and the way I roll, it is!!).

Paul

Hi Paul

I take your point - I just don't see anything in the wording to indicate the two are dealt with differently.

All the best

Puzzled

Puzzled - p29 para 1:
'Due to their specialised nature, they [Special Munitions]may only be requested if they are listed as an asset in the army lists, even though they do not require an asset to be used for requested support'.

Seems clear to me they are dealt with differently. This bit comes right after saying Special Munitions can be used for scheduled and requested- so the differentiation is clear. (I think).

Gun-Pit Paul's interpretation looks spot on.
Guy

I'm with Puzzled, one asset per munition per strike. 30 points seems far to cheap to equip all aircraft called in with cluster munitions for example, whilst paying 60 points to have one strike of two aircraft to be armed with clusters seems more realistic, could be game turning if used at the right time and worth the points spend.

the farrier: I think Paul said one asset per unit - your example, 2 aircraft = 60 points is exactly in accord with that - albeit he, and I think the rules say that's all you pay for any number of turns requested.

Puzzled says your strike costs 60 points per request.
You may think that makes more sense but the rules (see above) seem to say different - hence the request for clarification I presume.

We had this discussion re Smoke a few days ago. Same points made - I still think the rules clearly say you don't spend the asset you purchase for requests.
Guy

Hi Guy!

Good point and well made - I'm with you!

I've read that section several times, but it's the first time I've read it like that! I suppose I'm reading what I expect to read! :(

Would still like to know about smoke though!

Cheers Guy

Puzzled

"As for your last paragraph, I think it was intentional."

The reason I asked about the wording in the scenario descriptions is that I wondered if perhaps there weren’t some unintended consequences at work. They were written before the errata and so couldn’t possibly have intentionally distinguished between scheduled and requested assets and their respective availability because there was, at the time of writing, no such thing as assets for requested special munitions fire. In my game today (an Encirclement battle) I refrained from buying special munitions for requested use (although the scenario description would appear to allow it) because I didn’t want to feel as though I had stiffed my opponent because I has spotted a semantic loophole and he hadn’t. Maybe I missed a trick…

Thanks Puzzled!
I think I would too - like clarification about the smoke I mean.

Cheers
Guy

So let's set up a hypothetical scenario here: You have two identical aircraft assets that you've purchased. You want to have each do a scheduled strike of, say, cluster bombs in turn 1, and you also want each to be able to deliver two clusterbomb strikes via FAC later in the game. So then, how much would that cost?

(A) 30 points. Buying clusterbombs once means you get as many as you need on all your airplanes for the entire game.
(B) 60 points. You nee to buy them once per aircraft asset, but once so equipped, you get unlimited special-munitions strikes out of said aircraft asset.
(C) 60 points. You need to buy the asset once for the schedule attacks, but that will cover both planes; and once for the requested strikes, but that will cover both planes for both of their attacks.
(D) 90 points. You need to buy the asset once for the scheduled strikes, but that will cover both planes; and once for each requested strike, but each purchase for the requested strikes will cover both planes.
(E) 120 points. You need to pay 30 points for each individual "shot." So, 30 x (2 scheduled attacks + (2 requested attacks each x 2 aircraft assets)) = 30 x 4 = 120 points.

In my view, E, 120 points.

Not only because cluster munitions are not as available as iron bombs, but also for balance. This gives you four 20cm beaten zones (2 in turn 1 and two whenever) with 6 attacks on every thing in the zone, hits on 4,5 and 6 and discounts any saving rolls.

You hit a Soviet tank regiment in the woods with that lot and the result will be devastating, all for the cost, in points terms, of a single 90mm M48 Patton, a 17lb Centurion or a T-62. I know which I'd add to my list