The Commander Series Forum

I'm sorting through the piles of painted infantry that came with the assorted Belgian stuff I've acquired over the years. I'm assuming these are both H&R and Milans? But they are different models? Any idea why the difference?



Also, does anyone do an M48 AVLB and does anyone have any details on the M108VBCL which the Belgians (and others?) used as an artillery command vehicle? Would removing the turret from the M108 be enough?

Cheers

Andy

Hi Andy,
The one on the left looks H&Rish and is probably a Milan although maybe a Spigot? The one on the right looks maybe like Mainforce (?) and I would guess at bazooka, not Milan. You will find Mainforce minis, with pix of many at www.magistermilitum.com. If they are Mainforce, they look to have been hacked a bit and rebased. Perhaps they are older GHQ?
As for the M108, a quick Google of the name, then click on images turns up some nice pix of the wee beastie - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=M108+VBC... - I have to produce some of these sometime as well, so I'd love to hear how you get on.
Hope that is some use.
Cheers,
MarkJ

Sorry, forgot to mention the perpetual M48 AVLB hunt. Your best bet is to use something like the H&R M60 AVLB, which is indistinguishable to all but the pickiest purist with a microscope
MarkJ

Scotia do a M992 FAASV (UM0051) and a M992 FAASV Command (UM0052) both would be usuable as the M108VBCL.

Cheers

Richard P

I've not been having much luck with Google recently!

The M992 looks like it will form a good base for the M108 version. Need a few boxes adding and should do the trick. I could possibly model the whole new 'box' area on a M108 chassis but doing a few might be a faff...

Is there much difference between the M992 and the M992 command?

re the 'milans'. I don't think they are mainforce. I might need to get my magnifying glass to compare them closer...

A

No not much difference you would probably be better getting the command version to use as a M108VBCL.

Cheers

Richard P

Ta.

Seeing as we're on about models... Gepards. H&R or Scotia?

A

H&R for Gepards (in my recent experience)

The Scotia one appears to have the radar in the 'dropped back' position, so is interesting and might make converting them into the Dutch PRTL slightly easier.

However, I found the main armoured body a bit small when put up alongside the H&R Leopards. Also with the H&R version, the 2 x 35 mm Oerlikon KDA autocannon barrels were more robust than with the Scotia model. The Scotia ones are probably more correct in scale, but are fragile (like some of the C&R guns).

I have both in my Dutch but you cannot really mix the H&R and Scotia vehicles close up, as the difference is very obvious.
But it's really a matter of personal taste.

Any suggestions for what to use for FAC for Belgians?

And what trucks did they use? My understanding is they used lots of different types?

Andy

Richard & I have been chattering off-forum about FACs ... it's an interesting question.

It depends upon the level of tech you want to depict.
The Dutch used wheeled Flycatcher radar units (I'll post a picture later) as did the Belgians. These were probably towed by medium trucks or even YP-765s. But I am of the view that these were probably Command assets & not practical for field deployment - just moving them on-road would be fun!

Whether in '85 NATO was deploying FACs like they did later in Bosnia is an interesting question. If that was the case you just need to take an H&R Milan base - cut out the Milan (& spare round) and replace with a briefcase size comms unit & base the whole thing on a 1p or 2p piece with a load of foliage. A bit like a sniper base
One thought I have had is doing the 'Milan' conversion & buying a 1/2 ton Landrover to run the FAC about in.
How battlefield 'survivable' such a unit would be in reality (in a full-on conventional war zone) is debatable.

On the truck front - I think the Belgians used some DAFs - but you'll need to use some of the British & US WW2 varients to get a close approximation - as nobody does the DAFs. (Again - I'll dig out the H&R equivalent codes).

What about air-mounted FACs? Alloutte IIIs maybe?

My '85 Belgian forces have FAOs and FACs in Allouttes - very useful for moving around

DAF trucks are available from GHQ in the Modern British range, pretty close to Dutch ones. The British H&R WWII B60 3 ton Chevrolet looks a bit like an earlier DAF truck.

The only problem with air FAO's and FAC's is people shoot at them as they can target the helo

Cheers

Richard P

Ah - so much better if they are small insignificant infantry types on the smallest bases possible then!

I'd forgotten about the GHQ modern trucks ... I've used the H&R Chevreolet (as we discussed) and also the US Dodge Weapons Carrier (US39) for the DAF YA-126 (again on your advice Richard - & it certainly looks the part).

A bit after the Cold War, but a little Belgian inspiration here:
http://military-database.de/1996-gallic-sp...

The portaloo is truely inspirational!

But I am now considering modelling a Dutch FAC on a bicycle with a radio back-pack on the smallest possible base.

Or if not a bicycle a motorbike

H&R do a nice motorcycle,
I've used a dozen or so on bases as dummies...
Is that a civilian pizza delivery man or the point man from the Rangers Battalion?!

Exactly HueyII

I think that Irregular do some WW1 or WW2 infantry on a bicycle - French or Japanese ... I'll have a look.

Some of the Irregular WW2 german mountain troops in peaked caps on skis have made it into my CWC Swedish.

They certainly do French - use em for my WW2 French m/cyclists.

IanS

Thanks for all that. Looks like I need ANOTHER small order...

Just finishing the basing on some Gepards, jagdpanzer kanone, more M75s, M109s and a couple of HQs. Still need some engineer stands. To denote these I usually put some razor wire on using the small springs from pens. A few people at work have problems writing tomorrow..

H&R ww2 cyclists or m/c are also good perhaps.It's great that everyone goes into so much detail