The Commander Series Forum

I have been thoroughly wrapped up in work and stuff and what wargaming I have done has been firmly rooted in C18th and C19th 28mm ImagiNations. However, recently I've been trying to rationalise projects and clear out what is never going to get done and sort everything else into 'units' that can be used and get rid of the rest. To this end I have revisited my Belgians!

This is what I currently have:


I've been basing them on the Belgian 17th Armoured Brigade from list BL18M from Mr Bevis. So basically I have:

1st Guides Armoured Battalion



2nd Guides Armoured Battalion


1st Carabiniers Cyclists Battalion


1st Company, 2nd Chasseurs Anti-tank Battalion


Mortars


M75s for engineers


Milan mounted in jeeps


M113B-MIL


19th Chasseurs - M109A2 with FAO


And the CO stand


Now, I'm trying to figure out wjat else I need to make this a viable force on the table, either standalone or alongside Brits (for which a lengthy post is due later!).

The two tank units are I think sorted. 12 models, recce platoon, HQ though I think the recce platoon could use a single squad dismount stand with the Spartan?

The Carabiniers, of which I need to do another battalion are vexing me as I can't remember the logic behind what I already have. The list says:

3 Companies@ CHQ: 1x AIFV/.50", 1x AIFV/25mm, 2(7 man) AR squads 3 platoons@ 2x AIFV/.50", 2x AIFV/25mm, 1(6 man) AR squad, 1x 60mm mortar, 3(9 man) AR squads, 6 SAW, 2 GPMG, 2x Milan-1, 1x 83mm Blindicide 1 platoon: 2x M113A1, 2x 81mm NR475A mortars, 2 trucks, 1x M113B-REC ARV

1 Support Company: CHQ: 2x M113A1CP, 2(7 man) AR squads 1 Battery: 4x 4.2” M30 mortars, 5x M113A1B 1 A/T Platoon: 4x M113B-MIL/Milan-1 (1988+) 1 Recce Troop: THQ: 1x Scimitar 1 Section: 2x Scimitar 1 Section: 2x Scorpion 1 Section: 2x Spartan, 1(8 man) AR squad, 2 SAW

I seem to have 6 AIFV/25mm and 3 AFIV/.50 with 9 squad stands (inc. 2 Milan stands).

I think I need to add the support coy (which I assume is what I did the M113B-MILs for) plus the rest of the Brigade Support.

So...
CO
1st Guides - HQ, 12 AFV, 1 Spartan (plus squad?), 1 scimitar, 1 scorpion.
2nd Guides - HQ, 12 AFV, 1 Spartan (plus squad?), 1 scimitar, 1 scorpion.

1st Carab. - HQ, 6 AFIV/.25mm, 3 AFIV/.50, 2 Milan stands, 7 squad stands, Recce Platoon (as above), 2 x M113B-MIL, 1 Mortar plus M113
2nd Carab. - as above TO DO

2nd Chass. Anti-Tank Battalion - 3 x Jagd. Kanone, 3 x M113A1B-Mil
19th Chass. Artillery - 2 x 2 M109A2 + FAO
15th Carab . Engineers - 4 x M75 + engineer squads, 1 x Leopard 1 AEV.

I also have a load of M113s which I thought I could just use as a reserve battalion as well as maybe using some M75s for the same. I also have enough to do anther tank battalion if needed.

Suppose I'm looking for comments please? On what is above plus what I should really add?

Cheers

Andy

Hi Andy,
smashing looking force you have there, very nicly painted and based. Belgium not my thing but you could try http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/modcwbel...
Cheers
Steve

Hi Andy,

They look excellent ... put my Belgians to shame

Your TO&E notes look reasonable and, with 2x tank bn + 1x mech inf bn, plus supports, it looks like you have an armoured brigade. You could also make up a mech inf brigade using the 'extras' you have listed.

Yes, the Fire & Fury orbats are OK, although they are at a slightly different level to CWC - I think one model equals 2 rl vehicles or similar. You could also refer to the ubiquitous Ultra Modern Army List by Bruce Rea-Taylor published by Tabletop Games ... way back when 198x was indeed ultra modern

From the above, a mech brigade should include HQ, 1x tank bn, 2x mech inf bn (M113 mainly), 1x AT bn (Kanone & MIL), 1x Arty Bn (M109 or M108), Eng & recce*.
An armoured brigade would be similar, but with 2x tank bn, 1x mech inf bn (AIFV) as you have already.
*recce looks to be at bn level, then corps level, but my bn ones are grouped at brigade level to round up small numbers (per bn: 1x platoon of 2xScorpion, 2xScimitar, 3xSpartan) in each bn. Corps recce bn shows as: HQ 2x Spartan, 1x flight of 4 Allouette II, 4x squadrons/companies, each of SHQ 1xSpartan, 1xScorpion, 4xStriker, 4xSpartan, 3 platoons each of 2xScorpion, 2xScimitar. There were 3 bn plus a tank bn at Corps level for recce, so a recce bn as above per brigade seems not unreasonable.

Hope that makes sense/is of some use

MarkJ

Thanks for that Mark. I'm going to blitz the remaining kit and get another couple of units done. I have a load of infantry that just needs basing and the M75s and M113s are pretty quick to do.

Need some proper engineering and bridging assets though and more Arty...

A

What no eclairs

Cheers

Richard P

They're in the background in the second last picture!

They are too! Btw, why is the Milan team on the CO base about to take out the command tent at point blank range?

They never did like their CO... He ate too many eclairs...

Spotted them

Great force, like the Belgians as it means you can use the great Scotia M75's.

Cheers

Richard P

Are those really Guides or Guards ... if Guides I think all the command bases need tents & blankets & camp fires

Also - do the 1st Carabiniers Cyclists Battalion actually have cycles (bicycles or motorcycles)? As the Scotia motorcycles are great (with rider or without) and I think that Irregular do WW2 Japanese Infantry on bikes (or maybe it's in their WW1 range) ... so plenty of options to go for

But an interesting force ... you've probably got more troops than the original Belgian Nato '85 force there ...

A nice looking force