The Commander Series Forum

Hi,

To add a bit of interest to the Bundeswehr component of my NATO battlegroup I thought I'd try my hand at a bit of simple conversion of H&R vehicles:

FAC - M113 to Fliegerleitpanzer
FAO - SPz 11-2 to Beobachtungspanzer 22-2

Any recommendations for FAC & FAO vehicles for British or American armoured units in Europe, late 70's to early '80's?

Cheers!

Pete

P.S. I'm thinking a bit of shaped plastic card & some antennas, this is not 28mm

For the British, I've used Land Rovers.

Brits - Centurion Mk13(modified)

Oops - for the artillery observer that is

A possibility that occurred to me for the US FAO was:

M901 ITOW to M981 FISTV

Do its in-service dates line up? Would it have been used by ACav units? (my references for NATO are limited to Google so far).

It brought up another question though. I'm planning reinforced battalion-sized units with 2 HQ's, so since the HQ's can themselves act as FAO's, would the separate ones be justified?

I would still do the vehicles, just use them on the HQ bases

Cheers,

Pete

I suspected that would be the case for the M981. Oh well, more boxes on tracks then... I will keep it in mind in case I ever try an 80's/90's unit.

Quite like the Centurion idea though. Can't find any pics. via Google, would a 6mm vehicle need much work? (Sounds like they kept their guns).

Cheers,

Pete

You know neither can I Not sure where I got this idea in my head from now. It just popped up when I read this - hope it isn't the result of something I drank
I'll keep looking - sorry if I've sent you on a wild goose chase

I can find refs to Mk10s and M12s being used in this role up to '79, but no refs to 13s and no pics (no idea where I got that idea from) But in this scale I'm not sure who is going to notice

Looking carefully at the lists I think I might go with an OH-58 chopper for the US FAC, since that fits nicely with the ACav theme.

Would it be reasonable to use an F103 Spartan for the Brits as either FAC or FAO? I'm looking for ways to use as many of the CVR(T) family as possible because they are just cool

Cheers,

Pete

Couldn't Brits use a Gazelle helo as FAC?

I put my USMC FAC in a UH-1 which was shot out of the skies the first turn, can be risky if the opposition has any AA or SAM assets. FACs and FAOs in helos can be targeted as the helos are classed as transports according to the way we played the game.

Cheers

Andy

Good point about the FAC in a helo. However I am trying to give each of my FGR/US/UK units an individual "feel" and zooming about in an OH-58 just seems very "Armored Cav" to me (as well as matching the spotter/shooter doctrine of the helo teams).

For the same reason I will probably avoid the Gazelle, just so the Brits are different (zooming about in their CRV(T)'s instead?).

Cheers,

Pete

I agree with Andy (Sediment) as I am the man who shot it down. SA-7 from the roof of Lidl

Cheers

Richard P

I think the Bronco met the same fate

The Spartan was used as a mortar fire control vehicle, not sure it was used for artillery, but then again, who's going to argue?

OH-58 and Spartan is is then!

To Mark - I like your thinking re. a discouraging HESH round, but would an FAO stand be allowed to do that under the existing rules?

To Pete - sadly, I might if someone could show for sure it was incorrect. I try not to be a "rivet counter" but sometimes I can't help it

To Richard - One of the motivators for this project is to give my Soviets someone to roll over in the Moscow-approved style

Cheers,

Pete

P.S. The remaining gap is a UK FAC - Landrover? Bedford Signals Truck?

It doesn't matter what you give an FAO stand as their vehicle - they are a command stand and are not classed as a combat stand.

Unless you put them in a helo or fixed wing, when they can be shot down with the air transport. Boom - no more arty or air.

Andy

I use the command version of the M577 for my US.

Hi all, thanks for the comments.

I get that from a game perspective the exact vehicle doesn't matter, but I am trying for units that look a bit interesting and/or different and also for more variety in painting/modelling. Some reasonable accuracy (if that's the right word for a fantasy war that didn't happen) also makes me happy.

Also, since the FDR/US/UK can all use any command stand to call in arty or air it's not an all or nothing blow if a chopper gets shot down.

Cheers,

Pete

Centurion OP tanks were 1 per Bty (at least in my unit [49 Fld Regt]). Not sure when they were handed to the RE.
Should be a rule about reliability, as they kept breaking down (according to the driver).

Hope this will help

Paul

IF the FAO goes in an OH58 do you mean for "show" or as a transport unit and so it will move as a helo? If the latter then I think that it can be targeted by anti-air! Just a rules related thought.

"If the latter then I think that it can be targeted by anti-air! Just a rules related thought."

That's exactly what they're on about - the recent Crisis Point: Norway game saw quite a few AOPs potted by Sov SAMs

Damnit, hit "save" too quickly!

Centurion OP's - that makes me quite fancy a visit to by 6mm Brits, see what I've got and maybe add a couple of FAOs in Cents, as they're such nice looking tanks

Have you seen these?

https://www.shapeways.com/model/499595/1-300-sp...

Cheers

Richard P

Found one picture in Tanks Illustrated No1, "Allied Forces Central Europe", showing a Mk12 Centurion being used as an artillery observation post during Exercise "Certain Encounter" in West Germany in 1981.It also shows a picture of a German M113A1 being used as an artillery observation post vehicle.
For the Americans in Tankograd No3007 "Reforger 1979-1985" there's an interesting picture of a M151A2 Ford Mutt with a M416 trailer being used by U.S Airforce Forward Air Controlers. The trailer contains the extra radio equipment and a generator. I just happen to be making one of these at moment so I'll post some pics.
Hope this helps
Steve

Yep the guy on the right looks a bit non plused. He might be press as the exercises used to be covered by the German papers, but your guess is as good as mine.