The Commander Series Forum

Hey!
Is there any company offering Austrian hardware "Kürassier"? The rest can be displayed by West German stuff aswell, but the Kürassier-Jagdpanzer (tank destroyer)is looking quite different...

As I am Austrian myself and the yugosavian conflict of 1991 could have easily escalated, I'm interested in bilding up a small battlegroup of Bundesheer and JVA!

Eager to recieve news,
Michael

Michael - the answer is no, allthough the Battle Group people are bullying H&R to make one. The best approximation is an M18 Hellcat hull with an AMX-13 90 turret. Cant speak for 10/12, 15 or 20mm though.

Great! 6mm is exactly what I'm after, little minis are just looking epic on the field!

Hi,

I know this is a very old thread but just been searching forum for 'Austrian'. You may know this already but Heroics & Ros now do the SK-105 along with Pinzgauer trucks.

Cheers

Richard P

And very tempting they are, too. Because I really need another Cold War army, sure

Of course you do

Heroics & Ros DO make a SK105 Kurassier, the catalogue ref is AM3 and they cost 55p each - great value. It's part of the new ranges and was only introduced recently. The also make 4x4 & 6x6 variants of the Pinz Gauer truck. See http://www.heroicsandros.co.uk/heroics/pdf/HnR_...

You can also find the 4K4FA-G2 at C-in-C miniatures if you didn't already know that - http://www.pfc-cinc.com/page/page/313012.htm

Nice, I didn't - they'd do nicely for the Greek Leonidas as well!

Yes indeed - could be some of those getting purchased for next year's big game Greece had about 100 Leonidas 1 in 82/83. Leonidas 2 (not massively different) production takes over from about 86 of which Greece has about 400 and Cyprus (the Greek bit) also has about 200. Production complete as of late 90s.

Just an update in case people haven't seen. H&R now do the 4K4FA in two versions G1 and G2 plus a mortar version.

Cheers

Richard P

And very nice models the are too. My Austrian brigade now has these along with the H&R SK-105.
MarkJ

What OOB have you used I have conflicting ones. One shows a PzGr battalion each with a company of M60's and another one that doesn't have the M60's. One shows a Brigade with 1 Pz Battalion 2 PzGr Battalions and a Kurassier Battalion the othe other shows 1 Pz Battalion 1 PzGr Battalion with a Company of M60's and a Kurassier Battalion. Any help greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Richard P

Hi Richard,
Yes, I've seen similar variations, so I based mine on a TOE from Bruce Rea-Taylor's Ultra Modern Army Lists that gave me a nice variety. I'm working away at the moment, but I'll dig it out when I get home & send to you. If I remember correctly, there's a 'short' battalion of M60 (2 companies?), a PzGr battalion in 4K4A, another in trucks (I used the H&R Pinzgauers as I couldn't find the contemporary Steyr truck model anywhere), a battalion of SK-105, M109 artillery.
Cheers,
MarkJ

Hi Mark,
Thanks that would be great. I've got a copy of the Ultra Modern lists somewhere will dig it out and have a look.
Cheers
Richard P

Rich - check BGMR group as well, there's several Austrian lists on there.

IanS

Will do thanks Ian

Hi Richard,
CWC-level Austrian Mech Brigade based on Ultra Modern lists, as promised:

Austrian Mechanized Brigade
Source: Ultra Modern Army Lists 2nd Ed 1982 by B Rea-Taylor (based on)
HQ: Not shown, so assume 1 HQ in Saurer (4K***) APC
Armour Battalion x1
HQ: M60A1 x1 (2 M60A1 + Co HQs x3 = 5)
Armour Company x3
M60A1 x3 (3 platoons of 5 + HQ x1)
Mechanized Infantry Battalion x1
HQ: 4K4FAG1 x1
Mechanized Company x4
4K4FAG2 x2, 4K4FAG1 x1, 3 squads with IATW (3xG2 & 2xG1 per platoon x3)
Support Company x1
4K4F GrW1 81mm x2 (platoon of 2 per company)
Lorried Infantry Battalion x1 (shows as ‘Training’, assume deploys in wartime)
HQ: Pinzgauer x1
Infantry Company x4
Lorry x3, 3 squads with IATW
Support Company x1
Light lorry x2, 107mm/120mm Mtr x2
Artillery Battalion x1
HQ: Not shown, so assume HQ in light truck, FOO in jeep equivalent (Haflinger)
Artillery Battery x3
M109/M109A2 x1 (batteries of 6)

Divisional Support
JagdPz Company
SK-105 x3 (15)
AAA Company
M42 x2 (12)
Engineer Company (Undetailed battalion)
Lorry x3, Engineer platoon x3
Signals Company (Undetailed battalion)
FAC? - Additional Brigade HQ element?

Source: Ultra Modern Army Lists Vol 1 Central Front 1986 by B Rea-Taylor (based on)
As above, with JagdPz now battalion integral to brigade, so none in Div support, but:
JagdPz Battalion x1
HQ: Not shown, so assume HQ in 4K*** APC
JagdPz Company x3
SK-105 x3 (15)
Lorried (‘Training’) Infantry Battalion now not shown
Lorries should be Steyr 680M (no model available, so H&R Pinzgauer 6w used), mortars probably carried by Pinzgauers, so H&R 4w used.

Cheers,
MarkJ

Btw, the one thing I'm really not wild about in CWC, despite the various justifications for it presented in this forum, is the idea of HQs charging around in front of units and not being able to be targeted. I therefore tend to use the BKCII rules that allow HQs to function as vehicle elements - seems to cause much more sensible behaviour
MarkJ

Hi Mark,

Thanks, that's great.

I can see your reasoning for using BKCII HQ rules but most of us exhibit sensible behaviour while playing CWC so you shouldn't see any charging HQ's in September

Cheers

Richard P

PS the Haflinger is on the H&R production list for future release

Hi Richard,
I neglected to mention that the 4K4FG1 is the MG armed version and the 4K4FG2 is the 20mm armed version. Also M60A3 can appear up to 1 company in earlier list and whole battalion in second. Likewise, more M109A2 in second variant. Not sure where I recalled my 'short' battalion of tanks from in my earlier post.
Delighted to hear we won't see HQs playing light cavalry - it stretches my 'suspend disbelief' to snapping point - OCD or what?
Yes, I knew about the Haflinger, having discussed with Andy & Ian at a show ages ago and sent some info to tempt Ian's design appetite.
I'm also keenly awaiting modern French infantry, which Andy had mentioned was likely to be out early this year. French is the only modern army I don't have, so keenly awaiting this (hint, hint Andy/Ian ^^)
I also still have to deploy some more 4K4Fs as Greek & Greek-Cypriot Leonidas APCs and I have a back-burner project for a Nigerian army with 4K4F & Vickers MkIII MBT ... my wallet is wincing at the thought!
Cheers
MarkJ

And checking my toys, I seem to have allowed 2x brigade level recce platoons in jeeps (i.e. Haflinger) even though nothing is mentioned for recce in either list. Even a purely defensive force will have some recce/patrols and the lists are laid out a bit poorly in Ultra Modern lists, so the absence of recce may just be an oversight. 2 light recce platoons in a brigade shouldn't affect balance anyway.
MarkJ

Check out this from last years game. Andy Canham did a whole French division and very impressive it was to.

http://sedimentswargameblog.blogspot.co.uk...

Cheers

Richard P

Nice! I remember seeing piccies of that lot at the time - looks great. All these photos are making me feel guilty. I have some time off coming up pretty soon, so I will endeavour to get some piccies of my own stuff online including posted here before the Joy of Six show.
Cheers,
MarkJ